An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old • Hacker News Board

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#21

Post by BBlarat » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

cwp wrote: post #12

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural processes can include earthquakes, volcanoes, viruses. Its often random. Plenty of reason to think these species have something to offer in the present day. I think of it like publishing an old book, or seeing an old movie. It is being a good steward of a legacy in a sense.

Also, there are a lot of species that went extinct because they encountered a predator they couldn't deal with - people. Is that a "natural process" just because it happened before recorded history?

I would say that it is a "natural process", we came from nature, and are still part of nature.

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#22

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #19

RankingMember wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something perverse about the idea of reanimating a species essentially for our own enjoyment (edification, whatever you want to call it) after it died out through natural processes.

Hum, nope, ecosystem restauration is not a perverse or silly goal. Species have coevolved for millions of years to make the best, stronger and more resilient ecosystem possible.

But then by restoring the ecosystem to be similar to your conception of a prior state aren't you preventing the continued maturation of that ecosystem, effectively stopping the system from evolving further?

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#23

Post by abc_lisper » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:13 PM UTC

I had no idea there were lions in Alaska and Canada before.

If they made it until there, I wonder what stopped them from going down south...

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#24

Post by bluedino » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

abc_lisper wrote: post #23

I had no idea there were lions in Alaska and Canada before. If they made it until there, I wonder what stopped them from going down south...

The American Lion reached all the way down to South America. They were even bigger than today's African Lions

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#25

Post by johnhenry » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:48 PM UTC

Not terribly relevant, but in A Song of Ice and Fire, cave lions have been extinct for hundred's of years as well. Given George R. R. Martin's uncanny ability to predict the future, this isn't that surprising of a find. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lion

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#26

Post by cam- » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:52 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #14

sp332 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we don't have to reintroduce them. We can just keep them in zoos or something. Or at least sterilize them at first. Chances are, they died off because they got out-competed anyway.

By whom? There's nothing comparable present now where they used to dwell.

We could always exterminate them again and make them extinct. Would be a very human thing to do.

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#27

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:15 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #22

pvaldes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hum, nope, ecosystem restauration is not a perverse or silly goal. Species have coevolved for millions of years to make the best, stronger and more resilient ecosystem possible.

But then by restoring the ecosystem to be similar to your conception of a prior state aren't you preventing the continued maturation of that ecosystem, effectively stopping the system from evolving further?

Not. First of all is not our "conception" of a previous state. We know that Europe had a big mammal fauna in the past and that this fauna was erradicated.

Second, We are restoring the coevolution and making the system stronger in fact. A well managed predator benefit to thousands, maybe hundreds of species. Entire communities of insects and fungi need the temporary ecosystems created by predators. Preys benefit also by mean of disease control.

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#28

Post by gnoway » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:26 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #15

hugh4 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was only ten thousand years ago, though. Anything that lived millions of years ago we're very unlikely to find enough intact genetic material to string a genome together anyway. You would of course need some kind of zoo, reintroducing a new apex predator into the wild would probably wind up bad for somebody.

Bad for somebody, but still fun! This is the sort of thing I could imagine a dictator of a 'stan or a drug lord doing...

Maybe because similar things have already happened. Columbia has a small problem with escaped hippos originally brought in by Pablo Escobar.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27905743

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#29

Post by Mz » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:28 PM UTC

gnoway wrote: post #28

jessaustin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad for somebody, but still fun! This is the sort of thing I could imagine a dictator of a 'stan or a drug lord doing...

Maybe because similar things have already happened. Columbia has a small problem with escaped hippos originally brought in by Pablo Escobar. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27905743

Or, you know, film crews:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_Island_bison_herd

Re: An extinct cave lion, at least 10,000 years old

#30

Post by btilly » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:30 PM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #8

alsetmusic wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been comfortable with the concept of reintroducing a species that we haven't directly observed. We can't predict the impact one may have on its environment or disruption to the food chain. Reintroducing a species which we are familiar with, say after over hunting by poachers, is more likely to produce the expected results without complications because we have prior knowledge of that species role in natur…

There's something perverse about the idea of reanimating a species essentially for our own enjoyment (edification, whatever you want to call it) after it died out through natural processes.

The leading candidate for this extinction was the introduction of humans equipped with bows and arrows into its environment through the Bering land bridge.

The African versions of big species were able to co-evolve along with humans as we developed spears, fire, etc. The American ones did not. This is why the American versions of everything from horses to cheetahs disappeared.