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Girl, Bye

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Re: Girl, Bye

#21

Post by exstudent2 »

marcusgarvey wrote: post #20
exstudent2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not feminist either. I'm also not a misogynist or a rapist! The vast majority of the people playing college sports are normal, nice people (as with any general population). To label them "Rapey" goes beyond hyperbole. I have no problem with hating sports, I hate sports. She can hate sports too, great! Claiming that college sports are for rapists is extremely unnerving.

You are misrepresenting her statement in a very big way. Read it again: "I think the entire college sports organization is embarrassing, antiquated and Rapey with a capital 'R.'" Organization, as in "institution."

Her full quote makes it clear that she has no love for the players. I would consider them part of the "organization" but at this point it's nit picking semantics.

"Tangentially, I think the entire college sports organization is embarrassing, antiquated and Rapey with a capital “R.” It drives tuitions up and gives a small niche of bumbling bro-bots the lifelong expectation that they will be able to skirt through life without brains, manners, or ever learning the idea of earned respect. “I can twirl a basketball on my finger, how dare you not want to fuck me.” And so on."

Based on this quote (and the rest of her essay), it does not surprise me at all that someone would feel uncomfortable around her. That person handled it maturely by going to management to mention it instead of trying to deal with it themselves.

Re: Girl, Bye

#22

Post by hypnos1 »

exstudent2 wrote: post #19
lukev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem is this pointing out? Sexism , obviously. And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint. In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.

I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.

The facts you're ignoring are his characterization of female colleagues and contacts as "chicks", and allegedly repeated behavior of talking about his sexual encounters in the office. This is the type of behavior that can lead to a hostile work environment suit.

Re: Girl, Bye

#23

Post by lukev »

exstudent2 wrote: post #19
lukev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem is this pointing out? Sexism , obviously. And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint. In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.

I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.

The author also gives her analysis of the situation, to which you give no credence at all.

In other words, when a woman writes an entire post about an experience: "I perceive sexism at my workplace", your immediate reaction is "your perception is invalid, given the facts!" even though you don't work there and don't know any of the people involved.

Sexism.

I apologize for the confrontational tone, but I am so frustrated by the casual misogyny among otherwise intelligent people on venues like HN.

Re: Girl, Bye

#24

Post by strangecasts »

exstudent2 wrote: post #13
strangecasts wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature. Since when is liking sports a professional requirement?

I don't like sports. Actually I hate them. Calling anyone/anything "Rapey" is what's unprofessional (to the extreme).

It's her private opinion though?

Re: Girl, Bye

#25

Post by exstudent2 »

lukev wrote: post #23
exstudent2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.

The author also gives her analysis of the situation, to which you give no credence at all. In other words, when a woman writes an entire post about an experience: "I perceive sexism at my workplace", your immediate reaction is "your perception is invalid, given the facts!" even though you don't work there and don't know any of the people involved. Sexism. I apologize for the confrontational tone, but I am so frustrat…

She's casually calling people rapists in her post and you're saying that to not support that is sexist. I don't think there's anything we're going to agree on.

Re: Girl, Bye

#26

Post by exstudent2 »

hypnos1 wrote: post #22
exstudent2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.

The facts you're ignoring are his characterization of female colleagues and contacts as "chicks", and allegedly repeated behavior of talking about his sexual encounters in the office. This is the type of behavior that can lead to a hostile work environment suit.

If it bothered her she should have brought it up with her manager. Instead she's making a big deal out of it after the fact.

Re: Girl, Bye

#28

Post by lukev »

zzalpha wrote: post #17

There's a LOT of reading between the lines going on, here. Going from Matt doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He’s worried that you either don’t like him for some reason, or you’re mad at him. He thinks maybe you’re upset about his recent promotion, because it means you’ll have to do more work to cover for his newfound absence on the team to What we’re really saying here is that your unreconcilable feelings toward…

So, this is subtle, because everything you say is good advice and can't really be argued against. Calm down, don't overreact, give the benefit of the doubt, be constructive, etc, etc. These are basic, undeniable principles of good human interaction.

But. But. Consider an alternative hypothesis; that the author really did experience a bit of nasty, petty sexism.

In that case, responses like yours at best sweep the problem under the rug, and at worst patronizingly pat the woman on the head and tell her not to be hysterical.

In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate.

Re: Girl, Bye

#29

Post by zzalpha »

lukev wrote: post #28
zzalpha wrote: post #17

There's a LOT of reading between the lines going on, here. Going from Matt doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He’s worried that you either don’t like him for some reason, or you’re mad at him. He thinks maybe you’re upset about his recent promotion, because it means you’ll have to do more work to cover for his newfound absence on the team to What we’re really saying here is that your unreconcilable feelings toward…

So, this is subtle, because everything you say is good advice and can't really be argued against. Calm down, don't overreact, give the benefit of the doubt, be constructive, etc, etc. These are basic, undeniable principles of good human interaction. But. But . Consider an alternative hypothesis; that the author really did experience a bit of nasty, petty sexism. In that case, responses like yours at best sweep the pr…

In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate.

And raging on Tumblr is?

Look, if there's some deeply embedded injustice going on, here, it's not evident from this single exchange.

If this single exchange is part of a broader pattern with this person, that's something a manager and HR can help deal with, and you would be very well advised to keep cool in order to avoid escalating the situation further. Maintaining the moral high-ground isn't just about ideals, it's also practical advice for winning out in an exchange like this.

If this exchange is part of a larger, company-wide or societal trend, speaking about it rationally is still the better course as, right now, it's very hard to take this person seriously. Without additional context, this just looks like an insecure 20-something who's just struggling with their first workplace confrontation.

To some up: I can think of no scenario where behaving as this person has done will improve the situation, whether it's a one-off, or something systemic.

Edit:

Incidentally, it's entirely possible that this person raged out on their blog as part of processing this whole thing, then stepped back and started looking for a constructive path forward.

If that's the case, great.

Everything I've written, here, presumes that this post represents their definitive reaction to the situation, which may be entirely unfair.

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