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Does tech discriminate against suits?

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Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#21
post #2

It's funny - IMHO the Hoodie Uniform was developed because people didn't seem to care about fashion or the clothes they were wearing - the stereotypical devs. I can also see how this has come full circle now though, as I think to my own office and if anyone did come in a suit, they would stick out like a sore thumb. On one level, it seems to be a shame - suits do show a kind of respect or reverence for the place of w…

It seems the way to wear dress clothes in the startup/tech environment is not to wear a simple two-piece suit. The folks in my office that get away with business attire wear more stylish items such as vests paired with unmatching slacks, coupled with a bold-print shirt. These kinds of looks look way more difficult to create than going to Brooks Brothers and asking for two suits. One legitimate reason why I would expe…

A formal requirement isn't what engineers are against. Dressing up and getting management attention because of it is a positional good, and they're enforcing a clique of "if nobody dresses up, nobody has to dress up or get ignored by management."

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#22
Funny how things circle and change, and sometimes, like political parties, end up flipping completely over a generation or two.

I suppose the original reason tech rebelled against the suit was because a suit represented conformity, an aggressively enforced dress code. Now, I suppose you could say that tech aggressively enforces a casual dress code, to the point where wearing a suit becomes an act non-conformity. I'm not joking here, the blog post is absolutely right, wearing a suit may seem mildly eccentric in a tech company. I see various people (including coworkers) wearing suits, and there is a counter-culture element to it. Suits are worn in different forms at the Dickens fair, by jazz and ska musicians (and people in the audience), and by other counter-cultural types (there was a guy who worked at Peet's coffee who always wore a suit and bowler hat).

SF is a place where this is particularly mixed up, since SF was probably the most east coast-ish of west coast cities where it came to wearing suits as part of the old dress code, and there are still a few more conservative industries here (banking, law) where suits are work as part of the older formal work culture than a new countercultural trend.

As for me? I like suits, I think they look great. I have never been required to wear a suit to work, so I never really associated them with conformity (I wore them mainly at weddings and a very few parties, so I have positive connotations). Like Greg Foster (author of the post), people would give me a strange look if I wore a suit to the office, but now that I think about it, there actually is one guy who wears a suit to the office every day...

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#23
The company I work for is extremely casual, but there are couple who wear suits to work every day (though sans tie) and nobody much care. That said if wear a suit at a conference then my first guess is not that you are a programmer, unless you do something else to highlight that you code for a living.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#24
A photo caption from the article: "Silicon Valley vs Mad Men — who would you rather be?"

But Mad Men is a show largely about its characters' bad behavior--their casual bigotry, crass money-grubbing, etc. If you're wearing a suit because you want to be Don Draper, you're not just a poor interpreter of television; you're probably a pretty poor excuse for a person.

I don't have anything against suits, per se. I'd point out that there are a lot of points on the spectrum between full-casual and a suit, though. I tend to wear business casual; comfortable, flattering, not too expensive. But it feels pretty grotesque to complain that you're being discriminated against for choosing to wear expensive, tailored clothing, especially when there are people really suffering discrimination because of their gender or the color of their skin.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#25

I think the problem is that most developers tend to be the nerdy types who didn't care much for fashion as a kid, or have the money in college to look good. Now they're in the workforce and they feel validated for dressing like shit: hoodies and pajamas are cute every once in a while but seriously, grow up and dress yourself like you're gonna get laid one of these days. The way I see it, if you code, chances are you'…

> Vest and tie? Lookin' good.

No, this really looks genuinely terrible. Never wear a tie without a jacket.

http://putthison.com/post/29635680290/q-and-answer-when-can-...

> The answer is pretty much “I work at a cell phone store.”

(vest without jacket is just as bad, except it's "I'm a waiter")

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#27
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a kind of privilege escalation?

Yes, of the social engineering class. Really dangerous if you substitute the suit with a hard hat and a paperclip - access is granted to virtually all physical infrastructure.

(I think you mean a clipboard, not a paperclip.)

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the way to wear dress clothes in the startup/tech environment is not to wear a simple two-piece suit. The folks in my office that get away with business attire wear more stylish items such as vests paired with unmatching slacks, coupled with a bold-print shirt. These kinds of looks look way more difficult to create than going to Brooks Brothers and asking for two suits. One legitimate reason why I would expe…

A formal requirement isn't what engineers are against. Dressing up and getting management attention because of it is a positional good, and they're enforcing a clique of "if nobody dresses up, nobody has to dress up or get ignored by management."

You're right, the business attire arms race is a real occurance. I'm being a bit dramatic, but I remember an office that stopped wearing sneakers for that reason.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#29
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a kind of privilege escalation?

Yes, of the social engineering class. Really dangerous if you substitute the suit with a hard hat and a paperclip - access is granted to virtually all physical infrastructure.

Very good. Hi-vis vest is astonishingly effective too. See recent Hatton Garden (London) diamond heist.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#30
post #2

It's funny - IMHO the Hoodie Uniform was developed because people didn't seem to care about fashion or the clothes they were wearing - the stereotypical devs. I can also see how this has come full circle now though, as I think to my own office and if anyone did come in a suit, they would stick out like a sore thumb. On one level, it seems to be a shame - suits do show a kind of respect or reverence for the place of w…

It seems the way to wear dress clothes in the startup/tech environment is not to wear a simple two-piece suit. The folks in my office that get away with business attire wear more stylish items such as vests paired with unmatching slacks, coupled with a bold-print shirt. These kinds of looks look way more difficult to create than going to Brooks Brothers and asking for two suits. One legitimate reason why I would expe…

> One legitimate reason why I would expect suit-wearers to be challenged is the fear of formal wear being required in the office.

Business suits are business wear, not formal wear, which is a whole different category of clothing. Formal wear being required in the office would be a very odd thing, indeed.

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