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How eSports are saving the PC industry

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Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#21
post #16

I think that the base concepts of this article are wrong. eSports is not saving PC gaming because the games require the best hardware. In fact competitve games have some of the lowest requirements possible. Riot(League of Legends) goes out of their way all the time to make sure that their game will work even on the most outdated computers and really none of the competitive games have the most astonishing graphic. For…

You make a good point but all the best streamers absolutely need good hardware to be able to a stream high quality video feeds at a good frame rate. In addition, they get sponsored by hardware companies to mention what hardware they're using. There is no doubt eSports is selling hardware. Counter Strike is really not as popular in eSports nowadays as moba.

Counter-strike global offensive is actually one of the fastest growing esports. It gets more monthly viewer hours than DOTA (outside of The International, DOTA doesn't get many viewers), although is still some way behind LoL.

However, CSGO majors viewing figures went from ~150k to ~300k to ~1mil to ~1.2m for the last few majors, so it's growing really fast.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#22
post #16

I think that the base concepts of this article are wrong. eSports is not saving PC gaming because the games require the best hardware. In fact competitve games have some of the lowest requirements possible. Riot(League of Legends) goes out of their way all the time to make sure that their game will work even on the most outdated computers and really none of the competitive games have the most astonishing graphic. For…

You make a good point but all the best streamers absolutely need good hardware to be able to a stream high quality video feeds at a good frame rate. In addition, they get sponsored by hardware companies to mention what hardware they're using. There is no doubt eSports is selling hardware. Counter Strike is really not as popular in eSports nowadays as moba.

You too make a good point but again, not all streamers are in eSport, take PewDiePie or any minecraft streamer. Streamers(and sponsors on teams/players) I would say are more of a medium of advertising space more than something that you see and think "I want it because it's going to make my life better". The only case in which the "product placement" makes sense is for peripherals, a good keyboard/mouse and other accessories can make a difference.

Obviously not everything is black an white but I think that the reasons why "the PC industry is being saved" are way more that just eSports.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#23

I think that the base concepts of this article are wrong. eSports is not saving PC gaming because the games require the best hardware. In fact competitve games have some of the lowest requirements possible. Riot(League of Legends) goes out of their way all the time to make sure that their game will work even on the most outdated computers and really none of the competitive games have the most astonishing graphic. For…

I think another aspect that isn't always touched upon is the fact that many people will own some form of PC even as tablets and smartphones deliver more frequent updates and sales numbers.

I've owned consoles in the past (last one I bought was an Xbox360 when it was on sale some years back) but I've always had a PC in the house. For all the talk of how expensive PC gaming is, for me it's always been the least expensive way to play video games. On the surface, a PC (of any stripe) will look more expensive than a game console at $500-1500 for a typical computer versus ~$400 for a game console. But to me, a game console is an additional $400 that I'd be spending for another box just for playing games.

I think for a while, the growing popularity of laptops and fewer desktop sales might have affected this balance since notebooks were generally more expensive for equivalent hardware and often lacked the GPU power needed for even modest gaming. But now I see even more modest laptops with integrated graphics that can handle at least some level of game performance as well as a crop of reasonably priced ($800-1000) notebooks that come with some sort of dedicated GPU.

I'm sure that for a lot of people whose computing usage can be handled solely with mobile-grade hardware (tablets, phones) the game console is a cheap and easy way to keep playing video games on a screen larger than 5 or 10 inches. But for anyone who already needs a laptop or a desktop, the cost difference to add a bit more RAM and a decent video card is less than the cost of a game console and even the base level specs are getting to the point where you can expect at least a decent level of gaming capability.

I guess the tl;dr version is: eSports help and more powerful phones/tablets may be cutting into the desktop/laptop markets but at the same time, desktops and laptops continue to improve and even mainstream PCs can handle games now (even better if you put an extra $150-250 into RAM and GPU).

As has historically been the case, the PC (whether a $600 Asus or a $2000 Macbook) is the gaming platform many people already own so it stands to reason that many will continue to use it as such.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if it's still a thing but in Counter Strike people use very low resolutions to enhance performance, have better vision and reduce mouse movement. I can't say for sure with CS but I know it's definitely the case with StarCraft. I saw it firsthand when I was in Vegas for a competition and had the chance to spectate behind some of the competitors irl. All that I saw were on the lowest graphics settings.

When I played CS:S in CAL Open, I saw a lot of people putting the graphics all the way down so their vision wasn't obscured by dust in the air, or fluffy bushes, or sun glare, or particle effects. I never played seriously enough to go as far as finding out if it made a difference. I just liked to play a pretty game.

CS:GO isn't that graphically advanced over CS:S. A lot of the more serious players will turn off props/doodads that don't have player collision.

Turning off bloom is always a good decision IMO... just looks ugly most of the time.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#25
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given their work with the Steam Link and Steam Controller, I think you have a valid point. Steam Link supports DualShock and XBox controllers, and can stream via network from a PC located elsewhere in the house, making PC a viable competitor in the "couch gaming" space that consoles have thus far dominated.

I agree with you about the steam link. It now allows me to play couch co-op games in the living room without having to drag my computer into the living room. The steam controller however does not seem to have as much use. I tried using it on several games in my library and was not satisfied with the amount of control I got. A wireless keyboard and mouse could give me a better experience.

I've had a bit of a mixed reaction with my Steam Controller experience. I find the trackpad approach innovative, and the configuration options have incredible depth, but that depth also creates complexity and a steep learning curve. I think it can be a viable replacement for controllers in certain genres, and it can make other genres "couch" viable which previously weren't (turned-based mouse-driven games, for instance).

I think it will find its own niche, overlapping some of the games which were previously keyboard/mouse exclusive as well as some of the games previously XBox/DualShock controller exclusive.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#26
post #16

I think that the base concepts of this article are wrong. eSports is not saving PC gaming because the games require the best hardware. In fact competitve games have some of the lowest requirements possible. Riot(League of Legends) goes out of their way all the time to make sure that their game will work even on the most outdated computers and really none of the competitive games have the most astonishing graphic. For…

You make a good point but all the best streamers absolutely need good hardware to be able to a stream high quality video feeds at a good frame rate. In addition, they get sponsored by hardware companies to mention what hardware they're using. There is no doubt eSports is selling hardware. Counter Strike is really not as popular in eSports nowadays as moba.

I find it really weird that in inherently "networked" games (where there is a concept of a shared deterministic game-session physics-frame counter), the PC playing the game has to be the same PC rendering the game. You can recreate exactly the same view each player has from that player's outgoing network traffic! Thus, some alternatives to rendering on the user's own GPU come to mind:

1. instead of those HDMI-path recorder middleboxes, you could have an Ethernet-path renderer+recorder box and put all the heavy GPUs there. (Note that, if you don't care about streaming precisely "live", the rendering and recording no longer need to be dataflow-synchronous; you could play the whole game, buffer the network data into the rendering pipeline, and then it would sit there rendering the results for however long you wanted to give to achieve a desired "quality" bound. Effectively, you're doing the same thing as people who stream their commentary of a finished match by rendering off the replay-file the match; but in this case, the "replay file" is streaming to the renderer as it's being created.)

2. You could have an in-game option to asynchronously stream the session data to a cloud GPU instance and render the game there. (Or, y'know, if any of the game infrastructure providers really knew what they were doing with the Internet, they could offer those instances themselves, for a profit.)

3. Or, with the game studios' cooperation, just throw the whole edifice of local rendering away, capture the "replay" data for every match to the studio's data-centers, and then provide a service for cacheable just-in-time rendering of any replay data. Effectively, the game studio would say "whenever you play a match, we render a video from each player's perspective and post it immediately"—but without the need to actually do that (or keep said videos around long-term), because the video is entirely "computed state" that can be recreated from the replay files at any time.

4. One step more: a sudio could even provide an HTML5 "enhanced viewer" interacting with such a render-farm-backed CDN, that let people change perspective of the action themselves, to switch between the perspectives of the players and other views, sort of making such a viewer into an HTML5 thin-client for the game engine on the renderer instance (but without game-state-manipulation logic.) Imagine such a viewer as an embeddable iframe, like a YouTube video. A replay commentator could walk through a session as they would in-client to store a camera-movement-record on the server, get a permalink to the embeddable "video" for that, and then feed it to MashupTwitch along with commentary audio. Presuming the thing that gets embedded is an iframe of the same rendering service, though, any given player could "break out of" the commentated-on view to look around at what else is happening in the game at any time (pausing the commentary mash-up and starting up an extra renderer), and then, when they're done, restart the commentary (terminating the renderer instance and resuming the parent session from where it was.) All the control of being a spectator for a physical sport; all the convenience of a DVR.

---

Mind you, with such a shift, you no longer get "for free" the compositing of the game session video-feed with other things going on on your PC, like voice/webcam recording. But it's simple enough to create a "mash-up" site that plays a raw video-stream from a game-renderer service, and then syncs and overlays a much-more-diminutive 96kbps audio stream from the user's own computer. Twitch would likely grow to serve that market that if the components were in place.

The important thing about this change, though, is that with remote async game-session rendering, you could actually stream games on a less-than-stellar internet connection (you'd still need low latency to play at all, but high bandwidth would no longer be a concern.) So many of my friends living in rural, under-served-by-ISPs areas wish they could stream, but can't.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#27
My biggest surprise is how this all runs on Microsoft's operating system and Microsoft does very little to nothing to facilitate this as a potential revenue stream. In fact they're just sitting by and watching as the biggest player, steam, is slowly taking their library off of windows and onto mac or linux.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#28
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point but all the best streamers absolutely need good hardware to be able to a stream high quality video feeds at a good frame rate. In addition, they get sponsored by hardware companies to mention what hardware they're using. There is no doubt eSports is selling hardware. Counter Strike is really not as popular in eSports nowadays as moba.

Counter-strike global offensive is actually one of the fastest growing esports. It gets more monthly viewer hours than DOTA (outside of The International, DOTA doesn't get many viewers), although is still some way behind LoL. However, CSGO majors viewing figures went from ~150k to ~300k to ~1mil to ~1.2m for the last few majors, so it's growing really fast.

I think you get (random?) items in the game when you view these events in CSGO, so many people are viewing with multiple accounts.

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#29
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point but all the best streamers absolutely need good hardware to be able to a stream high quality video feeds at a good frame rate. In addition, they get sponsored by hardware companies to mention what hardware they're using. There is no doubt eSports is selling hardware. Counter Strike is really not as popular in eSports nowadays as moba.

I find it really weird that in inherently "networked" games (where there is a concept of a shared deterministic game-session physics-frame counter), the PC playing the game has to be the same PC rendering the game. You can recreate exactly the same view each player has from that player's outgoing network traffic! Thus, some alternatives to rendering on the user's own GPU come to mind: 1. instead of those HDMI-path re…

Lots of games used to offer "demo record" modes that did this - saving the data layer rather than the video. Or a "spectator mode". However, rendering it requires the exact same version of the game (including all mods) and typically there's no facility for high-fanout "spectator mode".

Re: How eSports are saving the PC industry

#30
post #27

My biggest surprise is how this all runs on Microsoft's operating system and Microsoft does very little to nothing to facilitate this as a potential revenue stream. In fact they're just sitting by and watching as the biggest player, steam, is slowly taking their library off of windows and onto mac or linux.

I think Valve are getting games onto mac and linux in anticipation of an xBox store, or a locked down version of Win 10 with an xBox store coming in the future.
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