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Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

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Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pushing a false dichotomy of personal wealth or Federal income tax. It would be much easier and effective to simply preempt the concentration of such wealth in the first place by ensuring more equitable salaries across the workforce. No onerous redistribution necessary.

How would you force employers to pay their employees equitable salaries? What if a job isn't worth that much to an employer?

Turn the question around - how do you force employees to accept horrible salaries?

You make sure there is no job safety so they are scared to ask for a raise. You make sure there is no good social safety net, so they fear for losing their job. You make sure the employees cannot effectively organize to present a more effective bargaining force.

And you get people to believe that a business model that can't pay its employees an equitable salary should still be allowed to continue.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pushing a false dichotomy of personal wealth or Federal income tax. It would be much easier and effective to simply preempt the concentration of such wealth in the first place by ensuring more equitable salaries across the workforce. No onerous redistribution necessary.

How would you force employers to pay their employees equitable salaries? What if a job isn't worth that much to an employer?

Then the job is not worth doing. Ditch digging and filling has zero productive utility. If there is something someone wants done, but they value it so little its not worth the time to provide another human with a living wage, it is not work worthy of being done. If it actually mattered to whoever wants it done, they would offer more for it.

Remember, corporate profits are only the indirection of the translation of time into things and acts. People buy a McRib to eat, but if they had to pay the supply chain of that McRib reasonable wages they would probably rather eat something else for that price, something healthier and tastier most likely.

Though in all honesty, the real problem is not forcing employers who do employ people to give them more money than they would be willing to work for. The problem is that those wages constitute the survival of that individual, even when in our current society it is asinine to think people are contributing to one another's survival more than they are contributing to superfluous wants. The fraction of our workforce involved in providing food, shelter, security, and health are probably at most one in ten. The rest are there for wants. Our social organization needs to start reflecting that more rather than making the unskilled writhe in destitution for scraps of a living.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#23

That's great for the community, but in a larger sense we should question what the point is of amassing huge concentrated wealth and then giving a small part (or even a large part) back to make isolated positive impacts. Wouldn't it be better if it was impossible to amass that concentration of wealth in the first place? Then the token donations would not be necessary. This is not supposed to be a cynical post, but thi…

> Wouldn't it be better if it was impossible to amass that concentration of wealth in the first place?

Billionaire tech founders are the worst examples to use for this argument. Zuckerberg's wealth is mostly paper wealth from his stock ownership. His net worth fluctuates greatly depending on Facebook's stock price.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#24
post #4

Speaking of Facebook, does anyone know if this is true? https://www.youbetrayedus.org/facebook/

I wouldn't be surprised at all. Zuckerberg worries me in a very ominous and looming way. He has access to a lot of data and his company is a massive source of public influence. And he's repeatedly abused that power with little to no public knowledge or blowback. Initiatives like his free limited internet and the primary school seem like attempts to control information and future generations, disguised as philanthropy. Couple that with his radical political views / connections and you've got yourself a recipe for a kind of war and oppression that we've never really faced before: a war on information.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#25
post #21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you force employers to pay their employees equitable salaries? What if a job isn't worth that much to an employer?

Turn the question around - how do you force employees to accept horrible salaries? You make sure there is no job safety so they are scared to ask for a raise. You make sure there is no good social safety net, so they fear for losing their job. You make sure the employees cannot effectively organize to present a more effective bargaining force. And you get people to believe that a business model that can't pay its emp…

I completely agree. My point was that, without some extra source of money, forcing employers to pay a particular salary won't work. We need to make it possible to live without a salary.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#26
post #22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you force employers to pay their employees equitable salaries? What if a job isn't worth that much to an employer?

Then the job is not worth doing. Ditch digging and filling has zero productive utility. If there is something someone wants done, but they value it so little its not worth the time to provide another human with a living wage, it is not work worthy of being done. If it actually mattered to whoever wants it done, they would offer more for it. Remember, corporate profits are only the indirection of the translation of ti…

>…even when in our current society it is asinine to think people are contributing to one another's survival more than they are contributing to superfluous wants. The fraction of our workforce involved in providing food, shelter, security, and health are probably at most one in ten. The rest are there for wants. Our social organization needs to start reflecting that more rather than making the unskilled writhe in destitution for scraps of a living.

I wish this was stated more often, at least to expose people to converse on ways we can allocate resources in different/arguably better ways compared to say 5k years ago.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#27
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turn the question around - how do you force employees to accept horrible salaries? You make sure there is no job safety so they are scared to ask for a raise. You make sure there is no good social safety net, so they fear for losing their job. You make sure the employees cannot effectively organize to present a more effective bargaining force. And you get people to believe that a business model that can't pay its emp…

I completely agree. My point was that, without some extra source of money, forcing employers to pay a particular salary won't work. We need to make it possible to live without a salary.

You may agree in principle, but you are using terms like "forcing employers" which contains a built-in bias. Here's the same question with a different bias: "How do you restore power to the employees so they get equitable salaries?"

Your question assumes that what we have now is natural, and that force is required to change things.

If the shop owner's thumb has been pushing down on the scales for years, then the solution is not that the customer needs to apply an opposite force to balance thing out, but the shop owner needs to stop applying force.

(Okay, applying a counter-force, as in Leslie Thrasher's "Tipping the Scales", would be a short-term solution, but it's also an easily corrupted one, and it makes most of the people feel like they are being ripped off.)

To start the answer to my question, first remove so-called "right-to-work" laws, or at least the legal requirement that non-members can "force unions to provide without compensation grievance services that are paid for by union members." (Quoting Wikipedia Right-to-work_law#Unfairness .) There's plenty more, but it's a belabored topic that you can easily find elsewhere.

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#28

So what model is this, I can't seem to tell exactly? Montessori, Sudbury, democratic, anarchistic free? Or just a traditional school with integrated daycare?

It seems to be a bit more structured than a free school model, more focused on personalization of lesson plans than total student choice. Someone on the New York Tech Meetup mailing list gave a pretty extensive answer:

>Hi everyone, I wanted to address because I think there's some confusion around the term "self-directed" learning as well as Altschobol's mission.

>Altschool is a network of microschools, founded by Max Ventilla - who worked on personalization at google. Through personalizing the learning process, Ventilla hopes to use technology to make the learning process cater to individual student's learning style and interests. They also have a sophisticated method of tracking student process.

>For example, a student who loves basketball might have the opportunity to learn about algebra as it relates to basketball. Personalized learning is quite different than "self-directed learning" where a student has autonomy over what subject they want to learn next.

>A "free school" which is what some of you seem to be referring to is generally a democratic school where students have complete control and autonomy over their own learning process. Far from being without structure, their is a complex set of rules and systems that are invented by the students themselves. Rather than reading "at level" the child has the opportunity to learn if and when they want to. Many boys do not learn to read until age 10, but they do eventually learn to read. Some children go on to college - others pursue different routes. Good examples are Sumerhill in the UK and Brooklyn Free School in Brooklyn. Direct observation and long-term studies have shown that this model can be incredibly successful if started at an early age- but when students enter a "Free school" as teens after being subjected to years of their willpower being squashed by authority figures, the change is too drastic and they flail around and often don't know how to negotiate their new found freedom. This is not the case, of course with every child.

>In the 21st century, the teacher's role as "purveyor of knowledge" is no longer necessary. Instead, the teacher is becoming a facilitator of knowledge. The knowledge is there and leaders like Sugata Mitra with his hole in the wall experiment and Sal Khan have demonstrated how far a child's natural curiosity can take them.

>Back to Altschool.

>Alt school was developed on the premise of three aspects being essential to productive learning 1) great teachers 2) individualized instruction 3) parent and community involvement in the learning process.

>Far from ignoring the indispensable role parents play in the learning process, Altschool hopes to use technology to breach the gap between what goes on at home and in the classroom. Furthermore, by 2016 they are planning on launching their first charter schools in an effort to redesign the entire public school system to be more agile, affordable, personalized and keep track of each student to prepare them to live happy, meaningful lives that make a contribution to the larger community.

>As a disclaimer, I am not affiliated with Altschool and do not know if they will be successful in their mission. However, I think it is a mistake to dismiss self-directed learning and free schools without fully looking into their unique advantages.

> Manisha, http://cottageclass.com

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#29

That's great for the community, but in a larger sense we should question what the point is of amassing huge concentrated wealth and then giving a small part (or even a large part) back to make isolated positive impacts. Wouldn't it be better if it was impossible to amass that concentration of wealth in the first place? Then the token donations would not be necessary. This is not supposed to be a cynical post, but thi…

> Wouldn't it be better if it was impossible to amass that concentration of wealth in the first place?

This was a total non-sequitur. Mind explaining the logic there?

Re: Zuckerbergs' New “Primary School”: Private but Free

#30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pushing a false dichotomy of personal wealth or Federal income tax. It would be much easier and effective to simply preempt the concentration of such wealth in the first place by ensuring more equitable salaries across the workforce. No onerous redistribution necessary.

How would you force employers to pay their employees equitable salaries? What if a job isn't worth that much to an employer?

Fix monetary policy so that people would be able to save in liquid assets rather than financing everything and living month to month. As an individual's savings rise, their autonomy increases while the marginal utility of an earned dollar decreases. They'd naturally demand a higher salary.

If that job wasn't worth that much to an employer, either the cost of the resulting service would rise or the job wouldn't get done, just like now.

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