Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
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Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#22Maybe this is my ignorance of the understanding of countably infinite. But if a hotel has infinite amount of rooms, and all rooms are full. Then why would anyone ever show up to take another room.. To me it would seem that all persons are in the hotel already.
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine you have one person for each (positive) integer, given a unique integer ID at birth, and a hotel with countably infinite rooms, each with a unique room number. The hotel could have someone in everyone room if every person with an even number as their ID was staying there. That is, for every room number, twice the room number is a unique even number, so there's a 1-to-1 correspondence between the number of roo…
But the paradox says... infinite number of rooms are all occupied by a person.. then a person shows up. There is one to one ratio here... of all rooms are occupied by a person.. infinite rooms.. infinite people.. if the infinity of people are all ready in the infinity of rooms.. Then who is showing up? Everyone is already in the rooms.. So no need to worry about moving anyone. If we change it to be numbers it still d…
This is because even numbers are infinite, and you can find a one-to-one relation with natural numbers (just divide the even number by 2).
In that case, the infinite hotel is filled, and you still have an infinite amount of people outside it that you can accommodate (the odd-numbered ones) :)
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#24A related derivation of the "uncountably infinite" is Cantor diagonalization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_diagonal_argument Put in more concrete terms (hard to say when we are talking about infinities): there are an infinite number of integers. For each integer, there are an infinite number of real numbers (decimals) between n and n+1. For each of those doubly-infinite real numbers, there are an infini…
"Proof some infinities are bigger than other infinities" (w/ Cantor's diagonal proof)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA6hE7NFIK0
"How many kinds of infinity are there?" (a very good list including surreals, P-adic, the long line, others)
http://vihart.com/how-many-kinds-of-infinity-are-there/
Also, I support her suggestion in "Infinite Trees Are Super Weird" that since we call uncountable line segments the "long line", we should call the uncountably-branching tree the "big tree".
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#25It seems to me that the only thing that makes this a 'paradox' or is counterintuitive is the idea that a hotel with infinitely many rooms can be full. Is there some math concept that allows this or is it just semantics? It sounds like some sort of "quantum" effect where there's only a room there if you look for it.
One way of (somewhat) formalizing this is to say that you have a set containing infinitely many rooms, and another set containing infinitely many tenants. Intuitively, it does not seem unreasonable that you can give every room its own tenant. Once you do this, then the hotel is "full" in the sense it is impossible to find an empty room.
Of course, we can also think about giving each tenant her own room, which also seems possible. If we can do both of these things, we say that the set of rooms is the same size (or cardinality) as the set of tenants. It is worth noting, that not all infinite sets are the same size [0]. For the purpose of Hilbert's paradox, I believe it is far to assume that we are dealing with countably infinite sets [1]. The mathematical result in Hilbert's paradox is that if you add elements to a countably infinite set, the result is still countable infitite.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_diagonal_argument
[1] That is to say, sets which are as large as the set of natural numbers.
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#26It seems to me that the only thing that makes this a 'paradox' or is counterintuitive is the idea that a hotel with infinitely many rooms can be full. Is there some math concept that allows this or is it just semantics? It sounds like some sort of "quantum" effect where there's only a room there if you look for it.
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#27And here's a great book that explains it to children: http://www.amazon.com/The-Cat-Numberland-Ivar-Ekeland/dp/081...
It helps a lot to be precise and use concrete examples. "Hilbert has an infinite hotel. We have to be careful with infinities, though, so I'll tell you what that means. If you think of a number zero or bigger, any number at all, Hilbert's hotel has a room with that number on it. Think of a number. ('2 million!') Yep, he's got that room. ('Six googolpillion!') Yep, he's got that room."
"A guest comes into the hotel and asks, 'Mr. Hilbert, do you have one more room?' Mr. Hilbert says, 'Sure!' He picks up his magic phone that calls everyone in the hotel at the same time and gives all the guests exactly the same message. After they do what he says, there's one room empty. What does he tell them to do?"
When they invariably come up with "Move up one room," it helps to belabor a couple of points. First, reformulate it as, "Look at your room number, add 1, and go to that room." (This helps them figure out "Multiply your room number by 2" as the answer to the second problem.) Second, dwell on who goes where, and whether it's a problem. "Where does the guest in room 0 go? ('Room 1.') Doesn't that have someone in it? ('Yes. Oh, no it doesn't, because he went to room 2!')"
No child has figured out my favorite fourth problem, but then it took mathematics until Cantor to figure it out, too.
"An uncountable group of people shows up at the hotel. Let me tell you what that means. They all have infinite name tags, all filled with As and Bs. Every possible name tag is in the group. [Give example names. Blow raspberries to do it.] The head of the group, whose name is 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAA...' [said with a blank look, trailing off] asks Mr. Hilbert if he has room in his hotel. Mr. Hilbert says 'No!' Why does he say that?"
Let them stew for a bit, and ask questions. Going on: "Mr. Hilbert says, 'OK, tell you what. If you give me a room assignment, I can always find someone you left out.' How does Mr. Hilbert do that?"
You can illustrate this with a game, using only four-letter names. Write down something like
AAAA BBAA BABA AABA
"Can you find a four-letter name that's missing?" Play this a few times, and then ask, "Can you come up with an easier way that doesn't make you think of all the names in turn?" Show them how to flip the letters along the diagonal, and then extend to infinite names.
I've had 2 kids and 1 adult follow this to the end. It's always mind-blowing for them, though, no matter how far they get. I follow up with this:
"That stuff they taught you in school, that stuff a lot of people say they hate, is arithmetic. This is math."
EDIT: Come to think of it, I actually helped a friend's 11-year-old daughter decide that she didn't hate math using these problems. She's probably still bummed about being stuck doing arithmetic for now, though...
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#28It seems to me that the only thing that makes this a 'paradox' or is counterintuitive is the idea that a hotel with infinitely many rooms can be full. Is there some math concept that allows this or is it just semantics? It sounds like some sort of "quantum" effect where there's only a room there if you look for it.
N1 = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,... }
can be set into a one-to-one relationship with the set
N2 = { 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,... }
by the function
f(n1:N1) -> N2 = { n1 + 1 }
(Using a notation I pulled out of my flying monkeys right at this moment.)
The first set, N1, is the state of the hotel with one guest in every room, i.e. { n | room n is occupied }. The second set is the state of the hotel after Mr. Hilbert's operation, with room 1 empty.
The meta-trick is that an infinite set can be put into a one-to-one relationship with some proper subsets of itself (that's one definition of "infinite", by the way).
Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#29Re: Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel
#30It seems to me that the only thing that makes this a 'paradox' or is counterintuitive is the idea that a hotel with infinitely many rooms can be full. Is there some math concept that allows this or is it just semantics? It sounds like some sort of "quantum" effect where there's only a room there if you look for it.
Imagine: how could the proprietor even communicate with those infinite guests?