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The Hostile Email Landscape

liminality.xyz

21–30 of 251 posts

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#21
Edit: They said they checked the spam lists but the ones that I've listed below may be helpful to others.

OP might have had an IP previously used by spammers or in a spam block. (See edit).

Important to check the IP before using it if it's been given to you by, say, the VPS Provider or the upstream. To see what, if any, reputation it has.

Here are two tools to use:

http://multirbl.valli.org/

http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx

And there are a bunch of similar tools.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#22

Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?

What's that even mean?

Certs or some other method to identify servers, so that gmail etc don't attempt to use IP for server identity, which is obviously flawed. The SMTP protocol is pretty flawed itself though, so probably that needs to change to see any real progress here.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#23

This guys story is a sad one but I'm sure we're missing some important information here. New mail servers get set up all the time, it's not impossible for such servers to be accepted by the big players. If none of these major services ever learned that his server was OK, it's likely that users weren't unmarking the mail he sent as spam. And that leads to the question of why not.

In general, everybody uses a service like MailChimp or SendGrid to do this. That allows them to send email, but keeps them from building up a good reputation for no spam on their IP addresses -- that reputation is built by the email provider, not by you as the customer.

For awhile I wondered why so many SaaS apps bothered to pay external (not cheap!) mail services when it's so easy to set up an email server.

This is why. My "easy to set up an email server" info was years out of date.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#25
You can talk about HTTPS and forcing encryption all over the web however much you want but as long as you're stuck with SMTP and the few large coorps as the only viable mail solutions you can forget individual citizen data privacy... at least thats my 2cents.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#26
post #7

The problem is not so much the attitude of the big guys. It is that smtp is fundamentally broken. we need a better mail protocol that ensures: 1. Traffic always encrypted and content always signed 2. Guarantee that the sender is who it claims he is 3. Decorrelating the email from the domain, a lot of users are prisoners of their current provider just because the address they gave everyone ends with the provider's dom…

"3 and 4 would require a sort of token system" Not to get all handwavey, but I think this is why some people are super excited about bitcoin becoming 'part of the internet'. There are definitely some areas where we need a concept of identity & trust, and bitcoin seems like one of the first truly distributed ways of doing it.

The thing is while the Internet is all excited about bitcoin, everyone else has (kind of) stopped using e-mail for communication. It's all phone based now. E-mail is just for the things that doesn't have an app. And maybe resetting your password. Unfortunately, the "geek" age is out in favor of the startup age.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#27
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that even mean?

something like EV certificates for smtp servers?

That proves I own the domain to some extent. Don't DKIM records do the same? For the purposes of anti-spam, a cert doesn't do anything except prove that you showed some CA that you own the domain (which can be done and is done in other ways currently).

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#28
Create an email network where is would cost a penny to send email. It would be payed into bitcoin wallet of folks maintaining infrastructure.

Every email would be digitally signed and encrypted. Certificate with keys would connected to email address (and bitcoin wallet).

Spam would die.

Go build it please.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#29

Create an email network where is would cost a penny to send email. It would be payed into bitcoin wallet of folks maintaining infrastructure. Every email would be digitally signed and encrypted. Certificate with keys would connected to email address (and bitcoin wallet). Spam would die. Go build it please.

Hashcash?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#30
Here is an almost related story: I am in italy and was waiting for an email from the local Apple store to tell me my macbook's repair was complete. After 6 days waiting, I called the store. They said the computer had been ready for a few days.

I checked the spam folder. Gmail had plopped the apple email into the spam folder. Gmail's reason was that the email was in a foreign language, Italian. Didn't matter that the previous 2 weeks all my google.com searches were done from Italy.

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