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For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

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Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#21

Post by Retra »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #11
enlightenedfool wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess government follows the scientific conclusions and recommendations. Some might turn out to be wrong and we unlearn them. Science does make mistakes, but that's the best we've got. We can't leave it to intuitions of the masses.

In the US, the Federal Gov't mostly follows the money. And actually we can leave people's lives up to them to lead. Whether you think their decisions are right or wrong, based on intuition, religion, science, etc., the populace aren't children and the gov't aren't parents. Freedom is the right to be wrong.

The population is largely children, and nearly 100% of the population were children when they adapted to most of their culture, (specifically the kinds of ideas you are rejecting here.)

You don't think "freedom is the right to be wrong" wasn't something you were taught as a child by adults?

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#22

Post by vonmoltke »

acacia314 wrote: post #15
bradleyjg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homogenization just mixes the fat it into the milk. What do you do with it?

It is more than mixing. It is a reduction in the size of the fat molecules which changes the way the fat acts in the mixture. Shaking the milk before drinking is not the same thing.

Creating an emulsion, which is exactly what homogenization is, does not do anything to the molecules. It reduces the size of the clumps of molecules, which simply allows it to exist in a consistent suspension. It has no effects whatsoever on how those compounds behave in the digestive tract.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#23

Post by 357467 »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #5
clarkmoody wrote: post #3

For decades, government ______ only to find out later that it was really bad. The social engineering has got to stop. A free people should not be subject to the latest schemes of self-appointed masterminds. The most evident and dangerous venue for such engineering is the public schools, in which the government subjects our children to every sort of social experiment, and what have we to show for it?

Well, I guess government follows the scientific conclusions and recommendations. Some might turn out to be wrong and we unlearn them. Science does make mistakes, but that's the best we've got. We can't leave it to intuitions of the masses.

I find humans to be pretty funny. Modern day humans no longer trust the instincts they have developed over millions of years and instead put their faith in shitty science and corporate marketing. They no longer trust themselves to know how long to stay in the sun, how many steps to take, or what kind of foods to eat.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#24

Post by JoeAltmaier »

vonmoltke wrote: post #22
acacia314 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more than mixing. It is a reduction in the size of the fat molecules which changes the way the fat acts in the mixture. Shaking the milk before drinking is not the same thing.

Creating an emulsion, which is exactly what homogenization is, does not do anything to the molecules. It reduces the size of the clumps of molecules, which simply allows it to exist in a consistent suspension. It has no effects whatsoever on how those compounds behave in the digestive tract.

Maybe that's taking it too far? Clump size may indeed affect absorption, change the time it takes to travel down the intestine, or even change the speed of chemical reaction with increased surface area.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

clarkmoody wrote: post #3

For decades, government ______ only to find out later that it was really bad. The social engineering has got to stop. A free people should not be subject to the latest schemes of self-appointed masterminds. The most evident and dangerous venue for such engineering is the public schools, in which the government subjects our children to every sort of social experiment, and what have we to show for it?

> The most evident and dangerous venue for such engineering is the public schools, in which the government subjects our children to every sort of social experiment, and what have we to show for it?

First two to spring to mind: A dramatic drop in violent crime since the 1970s because the "self-appointed masterminds" restricted lead. A dramatic drop in road deaths because the "self-appointed masterminds" required seatbelts, airbags, and crash standards.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#26

Post by kbenson »

clarkmoody wrote: post #18
toolz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean 'so much trouble'? We're constantly getting healthier, living longer lives, hurting each other lessand doing better by just about all metrics. The only thing that seems to be going downhill is our mental health, and I would argue that's simply because we have more diagnosis recorded, rather than those things simply not existing in the past. Could we be getting better at a faster rate, as a species? M…

> We're constantly getting healthier, living longer lives, hurting each other lessand doing better by just about all metrics. Totally agree. But are those improvements due to the decisions of central planners? > What do you mean 'so much trouble'? Things that come to mind: abysmal outcomes for many in the public school system; skyrocketing prices in healthcare; urban families almost completely destroyed by paternalis…

> Look at the places with the worst outcomes and you will find the most government involvement.

Of course. That doesn't mean they are the problem. It's entirely plausible they are involved because there's a problem. In a system with honey, bees and bears, just because you often see bears involved with honey doesn't mean they are responsible for its creation.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#27

Post by ceejayoz »

357467 wrote: post #23
enlightenedfool wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess government follows the scientific conclusions and recommendations. Some might turn out to be wrong and we unlearn them. Science does make mistakes, but that's the best we've got. We can't leave it to intuitions of the masses.

I find humans to be pretty funny. Modern day humans no longer trust the instincts they have developed over millions of years and instead put their faith in shitty science and corporate marketing. They no longer trust themselves to know how long to stay in the sun, how many steps to take, or what kind of foods to eat.

Those instincts were evolved to get you to reproduce and live long enough for your offspring to be self-sufficient. The world has changed enormously since the industrial revolution and there's hardly been enough time for new instincts to evolve to account for modern society.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#28

Post by JoeAltmaier »

357467 wrote: post #23
enlightenedfool wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess government follows the scientific conclusions and recommendations. Some might turn out to be wrong and we unlearn them. Science does make mistakes, but that's the best we've got. We can't leave it to intuitions of the masses.

I find humans to be pretty funny. Modern day humans no longer trust the instincts they have developed over millions of years and instead put their faith in shitty science and corporate marketing. They no longer trust themselves to know how long to stay in the sun, how many steps to take, or what kind of foods to eat.

Humans have been proved to be pretty bad at deciding things. We've used voodoo, superstition, trust in authority for thousands of years. I welcome some order in the process, in the form of science.

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#29

Post by bradleyjg »

acacia314 wrote: post #15
bradleyjg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homogenization just mixes the fat it into the milk. What do you do with it?

It is more than mixing. It is a reduction in the size of the fat molecules which changes the way the fat acts in the mixture. Shaking the milk before drinking is not the same thing.

It seems a weird sort of naturalism fallacy to assume that mixing milk by hand is optimal. I'd be very skeptical about health benefits, but I'm open to the notion that it tastes different. Have you done a side by side comparison (do some brands offer both?)

Re: For decades, government steered millions away from whole milk. Was that wrong?

#30

Post by omnibrain »

bradleyjg wrote: post #12
acacia314 wrote: post #6

I've switch my family to all whole-milk unhomogenized dairy products (if I can find it). Why should I pay more for less calories and modified fat?

Homogenization just mixes the fat it into the milk. What do you do with it?

I think non-homogenized milk has a better mouth feel.
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