The model minority is losing patience • Hacker News Board

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#21

Post by AndrewKemendo » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 12:52 PM UTC

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

>I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is.

Technical discrimination and preference heuristics (Racism) is the default function of the mind. That this crosses over from thought to action in the form of policy is a function of our social systems, like everything else.

It can't be solved with the wetware we have, it's a feature not a bug.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/magazine/09babies-t.html?_...

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#22

Post by protomyth » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 12:53 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #13

Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with. The other day I was watching a video on YT for the Daily Show after Trevor Noah took the helm. While all what I was just concerned about was the possibility that Trevor not to be up to the job and not to be able to fill Jon's shoes, in other words, he might not be funny, esp. since Jon…

> Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with.

As a popular TV program put it, it's America's original sin. Also, it factors into targeted politics that is in vogue. Separate everyone into groups and target them with specific (and sometimes conflicting) messages. It works, so I wouldn't expect a change.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#23

Post by lohengramm » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 12:57 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #16

A really good point noted in this article, and ignored in the comments, is that of the 'bamboo ceiling.' Yes, there are lots of Asians in tech. But they are generally programmers and rarely in managerial positions.

Maybe because you are considering asians in a foreign country? Surely most managers in China are Chinese. I would not expect to see a completely even ethnic distribution in high positions in any country.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#24

Post by michaelfdeberry » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 12:57 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #17

I think the Australian system is fairer, where university entrance is determined almost solely by the results of our SAT equivalent and our final year of high school in a largely automated matter. Universities don't even know the race of applicants (although they do know if the applicant is a member of the underrepresented Aboriginal minority).

That would only be fairer if everyone has the same level of access to education up to that point.

I don't know anything about the Australian school systems, but I know for sure that is not the case in the U.S.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#25

Post by vilda » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 12:57 PM UTC

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

Minority/minor is political term. Women are declared minority even though they outnumbers men. It's related to something recently called victimhood culture[1]. Declaring yourself as minor brings you advantage.

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise...

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#26

Post by atom-morgan » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:00 PM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #4

What's interesting to me too, is that they are also neglected in the discussion about diversity in tech. They are the most over represented minority in tech, and instead of looking into why, and how it happens, can we find a leverage for other minorities, what open them doors but not blacks and hispanics, they are just overlooked. Complaining people just overlook them as: "it's a bunch of white males", but Asians (an…

I think it's overlooked because for many Asians it simply comes down to parenting. Many people don't want to address the fact that that may be one big difference between certain minorities.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#27

Post by _yosefk » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:02 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #22

notNow wrote: post #13

Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with. The other day I was watching a video on YT for the Daily Show after Trevor Noah took the helm. While all what I was just concerned about was the possibility that Trevor not to be up to the job and not to be able to fill Jon's shoes, in other words, he might not be funny, esp. since Jon…

> Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with. As a popular TV program put it, it's America's original sin. Also, it factors into targeted politics that is in vogue. Separate everyone into groups and target them with specific (and sometimes conflicting) messages. It works, so I wouldn't expect a change.

Isn't it everyone's original sin? Which nation did not conquer the land it occupies today from some other nation? Which nation did not have the institution of slavery?

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#28

Post by mining____ » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:03 PM UTC

michaelfdeberry wrote: post #24

logicchains wrote: post #17

I think the Australian system is fairer, where university entrance is determined almost solely by the results of our SAT equivalent and our final year of high school in a largely automated matter. Universities don't even know the race of applicants (although they do know if the applicant is a member of the underrepresented Aboriginal minority).

That would only be fairer if everyone has the same level of access to education up to that point. I don't know anything about the Australian school systems, but I know for sure that is not the case in the U.S.

In South Australia, at least, there are a measure of bonus points provided to students from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds and rural regions.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#29

Post by jasode » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:06 PM UTC

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

>, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese

The 1 billion global number is not relevant because both the titles of the article and the post submission are about "U.S. minority" and not "global minority". The asian population at 4.8% of the USA is mathematically a minority.

>Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

The minority classification isn't about vanity in this case. The article isn't about Asians not represented as masculine leading actors in Western films or paraded as a prized husband-to-be for girls in The Bachelor. It's about admissions to Ivy League schools which has economic consequences. Minorities are complaining about unfairness (real and/or perceived).

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#30

Post by cousin_it » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

lazyant wrote: post #14

nraynaud wrote: post #4

What's interesting to me too, is that they are also neglected in the discussion about diversity in tech. They are the most over represented minority in tech, and instead of looking into why, and how it happens, can we find a leverage for other minorities, what open them doors but not blacks and hispanics, they are just overlooked. Complaining people just overlook them as: "it's a bunch of white males", but Asians (an…

A bit off-topic but on US tv shows is ridiculous how actors (esp. main characters) are usually white or black, little or no Asians and Hispanics. "Friday Night Lights" is about teenagers in Texas (1/3 pop. Hispanic) and they are all white or black (they even had an episode or more about the divide), not a single Hispanic or Asian ever (only one secondary character for a bit). EDIT: Also we laugh now at stereotypes li…

One of the worst such cases was the movie 21, where the real life MIT Blackjack Team (mostly asian) was portrayed by white actors.