Google and Microsoft make patent peace • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#21

Post by doubt_me » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 2:48 AM UTC

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #19

doubt_me wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always had this feeling that patent wars are only around to make the lawyers more money. Imagine how many firms would lose millions if the major tech companies worked together EDIT: (nothing against lawyers in general since they are obviously just doing their jobs)

Not a big fan of lawyers (personally seen people screwed by them twice) but there's this weird meme that lawyers can make lawsuits happen as they please. The cases where this can happen are very rare as far as I can see, yet the meme persists.

Well I am not at all knowledgeable about the different types of lawyers out there but in general the problem doesn't even begin to start with them. Its all the USPTOs fault for even allowing software (zeros and ones) to be patented in the first place (There are probably very legitimate reasons for this that I don't know about). I don't even know how many resources and time are wasted in courts but I imagine it would be pretty shocking.

I haven't heard anything about patent trolls for a while but their entire existence is based on bullshit lawyers and wasting the courts resources. (kinda getting off topic I guess I am done here)

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#22

Post by nemothekid » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 2:57 AM UTC

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #15

nemothekid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you link the right article - the referenced article references a court case between Motorola and Microsoft - one that started before Google's acquisition of Moto. It seems the patent battle was Microsoft abuse of its own patents to take a percentage of all Android sales (and Moto's revenue). Edit: Motorola vs Microsoft, not Google

It started a couple months before the acquisition but largely went through and ended (I.e. with the 14M verify against) while Google owned Motorola.

Well I'm not sure how the article backs up your statement. It was Microsoft who started the patent litigation against Motorola, and it was Motorola who decided to not pay Microsoft. Google was only tangentially involved due to its acquisition which happened after the litigation started, so I'm unsure how Google is getting a free pass - Google really didn't do anything (as far as the scope of the article goes).

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#23

Post by shmerl » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 2:58 AM UTC

So will MS stop demanding money from various Android manufacturers now? In general I hope they'll change their attitude from patent aggression to patent disarmament. We need more changes like this.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#24

Post by tdylan » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:02 AM UTC

proksoup wrote: post #2

"What we do know is that Microsoft makes approximately $3.4-billion a year from its Android patent licening deals. " [sic] I guess this might be good news for Google? From my perspective, patents are a toxic drain on morale/intelligence/innovation that we have no hope of curtailing in my lifetime.

Patents seem to have a net negative effect, blatantly anti-competitive.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#25

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:04 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #23

So will MS stop demanding money from various Android manufacturers now? In general I hope they'll change their attitude from patent aggression to patent disarmament. We need more changes like this.

[deleted]

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#26

Post by ewzimm » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:08 AM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #10

ewzimm wrote: post #6

Definitely a move in the right direction. Software companies have operated with a war mentality for too long, despite their common interests. They trade employees pretty often too, exposed no-poaching agreements aside. Competition isn't going away any time soon, but I think everyone appreciates more interoperability and cooperation. Will the Internet communities following them be able to follow this example?

I find it the opposite. In my perception, the patent hatched buried was actually a good thing for everyone else, because the patents were fought against (with the likely outcome to be revoked as non-patentable bullshit that software patents are). With that peace treaty, nothing is against those patents and they are actually strengthened, which is not something to celebrate. Of course, would the announcement contain s…

I see your point. But there will be a lot of opportunities for software patents to be tested in court. When people look at history and see companies agreeing not to sue each other, what direction will that push the argument? I hope a good one.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#27

Post by rhino369 » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:16 AM UTC

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #19

doubt_me wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always had this feeling that patent wars are only around to make the lawyers more money. Imagine how many firms would lose millions if the major tech companies worked together EDIT: (nothing against lawyers in general since they are obviously just doing their jobs)

Not a big fan of lawyers (personally seen people screwed by them twice) but there's this weird meme that lawyers can make lawsuits happen as they please. The cases where this can happen are very rare as far as I can see, yet the meme persists.

In some situations you actually can essentially create lawsuits out of thin air. In class actions, you can pick and choose people to be "class representatives" and file a suit.

Patent trolling is a pretty good example too. You buy some patent you find and then start suing anyone under the sun.

But this sort of competitor patent battle isn't easy to start by a lawyer. You'd have to convince your client to start it. But a huge F500 doesn't just have one lawyer, they have their own in house lawyers who make the choices. And then go find a firm to carry it out.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#28

Post by shmerl » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:16 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #25

shmerl wrote: post #23

So will MS stop demanding money from various Android manufacturers now? In general I hope they'll change their attitude from patent aggression to patent disarmament. We need more changes like this.

[deleted]

It can be also related to a set of patents published by China earlier which MS used to demand Android patent protection money. It could undermine their patent aggression efforts.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#29

Post by jeswin » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:40 AM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #11

bsimpson wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. It sounds a lot like a "we were here first" shakedown.

That's sorta the purpose of patents. Incumbent companies create a ton of valuable technology that new competitors would otherwise get access to only because the incumbents invested in them. You can disagree with rewarding it, but it's not totally insane.

That an idea can have ownership is totally insane. The only reason it doesn't sound insane is because we've been told over and over that it's a good thing.

- People will invent no matter what. Money is just one type of reward.

- If you don't want competitors copying immediately, don't announce or demo it before hand and keep it secret until you have all marketing in place. Or limit distribution and offer it in controlled, supervised environments.

The solution can't be "this idea is mine". Nobody must own ideas.

Re: Google and Microsoft make patent peace

#30

Post by michaelwww » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 3:56 AM UTC

I wonder if Apple enabling ad blocking in iPhones and iPads had something to do with this. Many see it as a direct shot at rival Google, which makes most of it's money from advertising. Days later and suddenly Microsoft and Google are besties. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.