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L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

latimes.com

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Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#21
post #16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?

No. This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. As is the idea that every human is an island. We're all in this together. The charities people give to? For the most part, it's acute and visible charities. Very few people give to the same charity again and again, over the course of decades. People also give to attractive charities - kids with terminal diseases is a much e…

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Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#22
post #6

San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem.

I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?

I don't mind paying higher taxes to support the poor. Only a minority of the population will voluntarily support the poor, and even if they do, only a tiny fraction of their income would go toward it. Forcing everyone to "donate" a more-than-tiny chunk of their income to help those less fortunate than them, is the ethical thing to do.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#23
These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winter and people were very quick to take advantage of local services and get themselves back to a position where they could afford shelter.

These days I live in Ann Arbor and we have a fairly serious homeless problem (I get harassed on the street nearly every time I walk downtown). The city itself offers excellent resources for the homeless to both survive and "get back on their feet", a situation that has not gone unnoticed by surrounding districts which have literally loaded up vans with homeless people and driven them 40 miles to dump them in Ann Arbor.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_ar...

The homeless are absolutely a problem, but you're naive if you think anything done to address the problem on a per city basis is going to fix anything. This is a national issue that calls for expanded mental services, more rehabilitation, and strict policing. Anything done on a smaller level will just encourage migration of homeless to take advantage.

EDIT: I'm fine with downvoting, but I do ask that you give me solid factual and evidence based arguments for why my point is wrong. Implying I lack compassion is neither accurate or a useful discussion of how to address this problem, and that's where my interest lies when I make a comment like this.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#24
post #6

San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem.

I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?

You are already being forced to pay for homelessness. Directly in the form of things like hospital bills, but also indirectly in terms of inefficiency. Less workforce, public safety, progress etc.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#25
post #12

I remember reading something about how one of the biggest hurdles of tackling homelessness is dealing with those who were made homeless through a history of mental illness. If someone suffers homelessness due to mental illness, I'm sure that chucking them in with a bunch of other homeless people in a shared home isn't going to fix the problem, so it'll be interesting to see how these people will be treated. $100m isn…

Rates of mental illness are higher in the homeless population than the general population. But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness; and that sometimes it's the homelessness that has caused the mental health problem.

I totally agree that the solution is not "just build more homes", but needs to include better access to debt management; better access to drug and alcohol rehab; better access to work; and better access to MH treatment.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd...

> According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 survey performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for the three largest causes of homelessness in their communities. Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#26
post #6

San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem.

I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?

Yes there is a better way - we don't treat any form of involuntarily property exchange as a crime, and let the market see what the natural rate of redistribution is. /sarcasm

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#27

These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winte…

> My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area

You didn't look hard enough.

Here's an article about homeless people in Ulan Bator, where temperatures reach -40.

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/underground-and-off...

http://visura.co/user/MikeA/view/40-96

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#28
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. is forcing [...] ethical? In a democracy taxes would be considered ethical, by most. Even for redistribution. > Aren't there better ways? There could be. Do you know any? Use your vote.

There's not much to be changed, just make donations voluntary. People are better off deciding where to spend their money. Politicians can ask for it, and spend what they get. Obviously (judging from approval ratings) they will need to make more articulate arguments. Resources would be better spent.

I don't think you could find democratic support for replacing taxes with voluntary donations...

Everyone has an Ayn Rand period, almost everyone grows out of it. Don't worry.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#29

These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winte…

You'd do very well not to try not to hold this opinion in your mind:

    "the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society"
You've basically tarred a whole class of (often vulnerable) humans with your predisposed judgements. It's a dangerous thing to do.

I'm in a privileged position, and in all honesty, I don't know enough about homelessness to make particularly informed comments on the subject. You need to start with compassion and an attempt at understanding otherwise you won't get anywhere.

Look at the situation in Europe right now, there are literally millions of refugees that will become part of the homeless class. "shameless opportunists"? I think not.

What about the kids born into it?

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