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Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

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Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#21

Post by znt »

malkia wrote: post #14

I've heard of a similar story, but in a different context. One of the asian airlines (I don't remember whether it was Taiwan, South Korean, etc.) had problems and lots of crashes. Turns out, people were not accustomed of questioning their bosses, and if this boss was your other co-pilot you would've never even try to correct them. I can't find the article, but it went something like "a western professor" goes to the…

It's in the book Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell.

More info: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-...

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#22

Post by hga »

argonaut wrote: post #12
dmm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a car in the US, so long as the driver is not drunk and does not leave the scene, the driver will almost never face criminal penalties. What we call car accidents are considered an unavoidable part of life to be resolved by civil courts and insurance payouts. I'd say say the US has a cultural mess regarding cars too.

This is terrible trope that keeps coming up. When something bad happens in a country, just because you claim the US has the same problem does not at all ever make it acceptable . It's a total non sequitur. And that's without even mentioning the fact that 1) the people in the article actually fled the scene, 2) many of them got out of the car and ran over the person again, 3) in the US you will in fact face penalties…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

And yes, in the US, if you are negligent, you will be facing criminal and civil penalties, in a legal system where guanxi is much less likely to aid you.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#23

Post by sitharus »

malkia wrote: post #14

I've heard of a similar story, but in a different context. One of the asian airlines (I don't remember whether it was Taiwan, South Korean, etc.) had problems and lots of crashes. Turns out, people were not accustomed of questioning their bosses, and if this boss was your other co-pilot you would've never even try to correct them. I can't find the article, but it went something like "a western professor" goes to the…

Korean Air is the commonly cited case, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Cargo_Flight_8509 is the crash the recommendations came out of.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#24

Post by malkia »

znt wrote: post #21
malkia wrote: post #14

I've heard of a similar story, but in a different context. One of the asian airlines (I don't remember whether it was Taiwan, South Korean, etc.) had problems and lots of crashes. Turns out, people were not accustomed of questioning their bosses, and if this boss was your other co-pilot you would've never even try to correct them. I can't find the article, but it went something like "a western professor" goes to the…

It's in the book Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell. More info: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-...

Thank you! Yes, I believe this was the original article, but I've never bothered to read the book. Maybe I should!

Edit: From the last comment found this article - which goes a bit against Malcolm Gladwell's findings - interesting read indeed - http://askakorean.blogspot.kr/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-a...

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#25

Post by hirsin »

nicklaf wrote: post #16
statictype wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing "China" with "all third world countries"

Also, China was a Second World country (at least, back when the distinction still made sense). Of course, at some point, "Third World" became synonymous with "poor", and was euphemised to "developing".

When Mao created the notion of the Three Worlds, he included China in the Third World [1]. It was (ostensibly) unaligned, whereas Europe (and to an extent Japan) was aligned, making it Second World. He (via Deng) specifically called out the Third World as underdeveloped.

[1] “Speech by Chairman of the Delegation of the People’s Republic of China, Teng Hsiao-Ping, at the Special Session of the U.N. General Assembly: April 10, 1974” (Peking: Foreign Languages Press, 1974).

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#26

Post by ryaniscool »

dmm wrote: post #3
mikerichards wrote: post #2

Holy cow, that's some messed up shit. I've never heard of such a thing. And that they're getting slaps on the wrists if any punishment at all because cops are believing their insane stories. What a cultural mess.

When a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a car in the US, so long as the driver is not drunk and does not leave the scene, the driver will almost never face criminal penalties. What we call car accidents are considered an unavoidable part of life to be resolved by civil courts and insurance payouts. I'd say say the US has a cultural mess regarding cars too.

Can you cite sources or any basis at all for this conclusion?

An acquaintance of mine was speeding and killed someone. He went to jail for a couple of years. No alcohol or drugs were involved and he didn't leave the scene. He was going something like 80 in a 55mph zone.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#27

Post by Retric »

In many of these cases bribes are what get people off not stupidity.

PS: Granted, in a functional democracy changing the perverse incentives is a much better option. But, unfortunately in China the only reasonable response to this IMO is to find and brutally kill the driver and then publish this after the fact. Accidents happen, but murder should never end up as the 'better' option.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#28

Post by [deleted] »

malkia wrote: post #14

I've heard of a similar story, but in a different context. One of the asian airlines (I don't remember whether it was Taiwan, South Korean, etc.) had problems and lots of crashes. Turns out, people were not accustomed of questioning their bosses, and if this boss was your other co-pilot you would've never even try to correct them. I can't find the article, but it went something like "a western professor" goes to the…

[deleted]

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#29

Post by ptc »

malkia wrote: post #14

I've heard of a similar story, but in a different context. One of the asian airlines (I don't remember whether it was Taiwan, South Korean, etc.) had problems and lots of crashes. Turns out, people were not accustomed of questioning their bosses, and if this boss was your other co-pilot you would've never even try to correct them. I can't find the article, but it went something like "a western professor" goes to the…

Definitely a cultural thing, definitely not perverse incentives at all. See: http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-...

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#30

Post by Nadya »

Retric wrote: post #27

In many of these cases bribes are what get people off not stupidity. PS: Granted, in a functional democracy changing the perverse incentives is a much better option. But, unfortunately in China the only reasonable response to this IMO is to find and brutally kill the driver and then publish this after the fact. Accidents happen, but murder should never end up as the 'better' option.

So your 'better' option to "getting off the hook" is murder?

On a related topic - if you're dying on the streets of China, your chances of receiving help are slim. Anyone who attempts to help you is responsible for your medical bills. They'll let you die on the streets.

The problem here is laws regarding expenses.

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