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Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

brandon.invergo.net

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Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#21

Post by yoz-y »

mscharrer wrote: post #12
yoz-y wrote: post #2

That seems quite excessive and only applicable for web sites that display articles. Amazon without javascript and multi-column pages would be unbearable. Ad-supported content is fine and keeps the web free, as long as ads are sufficiently on-topic and unobtrusive (sponsored posts, light banners à la The Deck, native advertising...). Also, the fact that the page is unreadable without either using a custom CSS or resiz…

I works quite fine without any css for me with any window size I tried. Are you using a mobile device? However, he does include images from third party sites which may cause referrer leakage which goes against the no-tracking issue he raised. (I'm only being this harsh because the article is too)

No, I am viewing it on a 24" screen. However I consider long lines of text as unreadable and my default size for a browser window is quite large. I really think most sites with simplistic CSS would include

    body { max-width: 11in; }
or something similar in their stylesheet.

Note that my own personal website conforms very well to his expectations (except loading images from flickr (without javascript) which, as you pointed out, leaks private data). I would add however that the most important thing is readability, responsiveness and speed.

A webpage without stylesheets is technically responsive, but in practice not very readable, due to pretty bad defaults in most browsers (i.e.: tiny fonts and cramped text)

Finally, the most important part of any article-based website (for me) is a full text RSS, which enables me to have actually good reading experience - outside of a web browser.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#22

Post by soft_dev_person »

mscharrer wrote: post #17
markyc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually, in the same paragraph he goes on to say: In any case, if a login is required, take the absolute minimum of necessary information, ideally only a login name and a password. maybe better than a login name and password, make it an email address and password. email address seems pretty vital for any kind of future communication

Some sites let the user provide a email address in order to allow password reset, but don't force it. I think this is a good practice.

If you have any kind of non-tech savvy users, it's a terrible practice, as you would be flooded with support requests on how to get into their accounts with no way of verifiying the actual owner.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#23

Post by kephra »

> 6 No non-standard fonts

I really hate those. Especially sites like github who capture the Tibetan Unicode block for their font, as this is a character set that I need. http://kephra.de/src/WylieUTF8/

ok I'm likely one of the few who can read Tibetan, but this shows a typical US ignorance, and certainly gives github a bad karma, as they make it impossible to display any Tibetan text on github.

11: Sites that can be viewed better without CSS, if you are a NoScript user. e.g. main page of Medium shows a grayed out layout where its not possible to click on articles without JS. But the become readable again once you disable CSS also. eBay does similar.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#25

Post by [deleted] »

mscharrer wrote: post #12
yoz-y wrote: post #2

That seems quite excessive and only applicable for web sites that display articles. Amazon without javascript and multi-column pages would be unbearable. Ad-supported content is fine and keeps the web free, as long as ads are sufficiently on-topic and unobtrusive (sponsored posts, light banners à la The Deck, native advertising...). Also, the fact that the page is unreadable without either using a custom CSS or resiz…

I works quite fine without any css for me with any window size I tried. Are you using a mobile device? However, he does include images from third party sites which may cause referrer leakage which goes against the no-tracking issue he raised. (I'm only being this harsh because the article is too)

[deleted]

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#26

Post by hollerith »

yoz-y wrote: post #21
mscharrer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I works quite fine without any css for me with any window size I tried. Are you using a mobile device? However, he does include images from third party sites which may cause referrer leakage which goes against the no-tracking issue he raised. (I'm only being this harsh because the article is too)

No, I am viewing it on a 24" screen. However I consider long lines of text as unreadable and my default size for a browser window is quite large. I really think most sites with simplistic CSS would include body { max-width: 11in; } or something similar in their stylesheet. Note that my own personal website conforms very well to his expectations (except loading images from flickr (without javascript) which, as you poi…

Is it not better to specify max-width in ems?

    body { max-width: 35em; }
That way, if the user makes the text very large, the entire width of the window will be used.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#27

Post by clemlais »

enno wrote: post #18
clemlais wrote: post #9

I don't see the point of these manifesto-rants. To quote : "designers with goals often counter to our own interests". Well of course and it's perfectly fine. The website you visit is not yours, and is not made to comply to all of your demands. If you don't like what you see don't visit it. The day you pay to visit a website, you will have the right to complain.

What the article proposes is an extreme position, and while I don't agree that the entire web can work this way, a lot of it can. Look at the page you're currently viewing (hacker news): It's by no means a terrible experience, and yet it manages to check all the boxes: it has no javascript necessary for viewing (there is one function for voting, but that is non-essential), no proprietary plugins, no ads, no visual cl…

That's exactly my point. Most users do not care about javascript, css override and whatnot. Web designers build website with their specifics goals in minds (maximise revenue, maximise viewers etc...). And thats fine, that's what make the web viable. I am not saying it's impossible to build a website following that manifesto, as indeed HN is pretty close, but HN target a specific audience. Their designers didn't search to monetize but to maximise their presence on the web. In that case their interests do not conflict with yours (no advertisements, simple design etc..). They did not design HN with your specific preferences in mind but the majority of viewers.

"As a consumer, which one of those would I rather use?" Well you might prefer HN to Facebook design, but the majority of Facebook users would not.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#28

Post by mscharrer »

kephra wrote: post #23

> 6 No non-standard fonts I really hate those. Especially sites like github who capture the Tibetan Unicode block for their font, as this is a character set that I need. http://kephra.de/src/WylieUTF8/ ok I'm likely one of the few who can read Tibetan, but this shows a typical US ignorance, and certainly gives github a bad karma, as they make it impossible to display any Tibetan text on github. 11: Sites that can be…

I really hate sites that send all content as html, but then hide it only to unhide it with JavaScript. It's getting quite common though. I wouldn't go as far as the OP and say no JS, but how about: don't use JS just because you can, use it to actually do something that makes the site more usable.

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#29

Post by markyc »

soft_dev_person wrote: post #22
mscharrer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some sites let the user provide a email address in order to allow password reset, but don't force it. I think this is a good practice.

If you have any kind of non-tech savvy users, it's a terrible practice, as you would be flooded with support requests on how to get into their accounts with no way of verifiying the actual owner.

yes.. even having an unconfirmed email address can get really messy when you need to get in touch with someone but just can't because the address is invalid

Re: Anti-Web-Design Manifesto (2013)

#30

Post by dsjoerg »

"If you are trying to make a web application, just stop. Build a native application. It's nicer for everyone." <-- On which platforms? Windows + iOS + Android + OS X + ...? Or, I could just make it a web application. Not a hard choice. This point was ill-considered.
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