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Nietzsche on Solitude

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Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#21

Post by ionised »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #11
yannis wrote: post #3

>go into solitude so as not to drink out of everybody's cistern. When I am among the many I live as the many do, and I do not think I really think. After a time it always seems as if they want to banish my self from myself and rob me of my soul. I always liked this piece, as it fits with me being able to be alone for days on end, without missing anyone's company.

The flip side of this is people tend to get weird and ornery without a proper community enforcing standards of behavior. It's pretty common to not even realize how unacceptably eccentric you're getting. Bear in mind that Nietzsche wound up totally insane. The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and church, fulfilli…

> The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and church, fulfilling duties and obligations to each.

I wouldn't ascribe too much significance or meaning to 'Christian' teaching. It has no basis in science or empiricism.

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#22

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

anonydsfsfs wrote: post #19
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is people tend to get weird and ornery without a proper community enforcing standards of behavior. It's pretty common to not even realize how unacceptably eccentric you're getting. Bear in mind that Nietzsche wound up totally insane. The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and church, fulfilli…

Nietzsche was likely driven insane by CADASIL leading to frontotemporal dementia[1]. CADASIL is a genetic disorder and has nothing to do with being solitary. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18575181 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17087793

> a genetic disorder and has nothing to do with being solitary.

You don't really know that. We know very well that weak social ties aggravate all kinds of health problems. Extensive time alone is probably worse for you than smoking. It's perfectly plausible the Nietzche's habit of spending many weeks alone at a time brought about his early demise.

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#23

Post by ionised »

thirdsun wrote: post #5
kfk wrote: post #2

For the first time in many years I found myself in a big group of friends in a new city. Good social life is something I always thought I was missing and now I have it. I realized, though, that my problems are still there. Maybe I had put too many hopes into this, but I am rather disappointed. In fact, lately I came to appreciate again solitude and my alone times. I still think friends should be a top priority in lif…

Sure, it's always a question of balance - I enjoy spending time with my friends, but I need frequent and long breaks, which sometimes leads to confusion and misunderstandings ("Why would stay in alone tonight?"). Maybe it's an introvert thing but I'm often surprised when I see people that need other people around them constantly and rate time spent alone as wasted.

That's basically just introversion and it's a perfectly normal way to think and behave for a large section of the population.

Introverts reacharge their batteries by engaging in solitary activities.

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#24

Post by [deleted] »

DarkTree wrote: post #16
TeMPOraL wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't put my finger on the phenomena until I read that comic one day: [0]. It's about energy generation and expenditure - extroverts gather their energy from human interaction, introverts have to expend it on those social moments. I keep sending this picture to people who know me personally and are surprised I consider myself introverted - after all, how someone who is seen publicly speaking so often and finds i…

Yeah I can completely relate to this and have attributed it to being introverted as well. I am extremely social when I do attend social events, often being the most talkative if it's a group of 4 or less, but need to recharge alone the day after whereas my friends will continue to want be around each other. They often accuse me of being horrible at communication and making the effort to hang out with them, but to me,…

[deleted]

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#25

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

ionised wrote: post #21
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is people tend to get weird and ornery without a proper community enforcing standards of behavior. It's pretty common to not even realize how unacceptably eccentric you're getting. Bear in mind that Nietzsche wound up totally insane. The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and church, fulfilli…

> The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and church, fulfilling duties and obligations to each. I wouldn't ascribe too much significance or meaning to 'Christian' teaching. It has no basis in science or empiricism.

Whereas the grandparent post and Nietzsche's thoughts are thoroughly empirical...

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#26

Post by johnthedebs »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #7
thirdsun wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's always a question of balance - I enjoy spending time with my friends, but I need frequent and long breaks, which sometimes leads to confusion and misunderstandings ("Why would stay in alone tonight?"). Maybe it's an introvert thing but I'm often surprised when I see people that need other people around them constantly and rate time spent alone as wasted.

I couldn't put my finger on the phenomena until I read that comic one day: [0]. It's about energy generation and expenditure - extroverts gather their energy from human interaction, introverts have to expend it on those social moments. I keep sending this picture to people who know me personally and are surprised I consider myself introverted - after all, how someone who is seen publicly speaking so often and finds i…

I'm the same way, and I've heard that repeated a few times now.

I have to wonder though, does anyone actually "recharge" when they're with a group of people or do they just have a higher tolerance for spending time with others before they need to be alone?

If you can't tell, I don't really buy the introvert/extrovert distinction and I haven't seen any evidence that anyone can spend unlimited amounts of time with others without recharging alone. From my own experience it seems like there's a continuum from "needs lots of alone time" to "doesn't need all that much alone time".

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#27

Post by jqm »

Although preferring solitude, I have found that long periods put me at competitive disadvantage socially. I start forgetting how to make small talk and engage in all the social grease.

I once believed it didn't matter and the time saved could be better spent engaged in productive activity. But as I get older and have carefully observed what works and what doesn't, I have noticed that a good command of the social language is crucial to success. One is extremely unlikely to make much of an impact nor achieve big financial gains without it. That isn't to say one has to be nice to everyone... assholes with a good perception and practice in manipulating social situations often do very well for themselves. But you have to have command of the language. And you don't get this being by yourself all the time. I find this unfortunate because in my experience the vast majority of people aren't that great to spend a lot of time around. Most people aren't curious. Most people have little myopic views of the world that are badly mistaken. Most people are frankly pretty dull and I'd rather visit the dentist than talk w/ them at length. But I've come to realize this is a counterproductive view (even if it's technically true). The world we live in is made of other people and we do well when we learn to navigate the river we find ourselves upon. But truth be told, I'd still rather be locked in the closet reading an interesting article.

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#28

Post by webmasterraj »

Taking this one step further, I wonder if increasing urbanization leads to more and more groupthink, because of increasing proximity. If solitude is key for forming a unique creative perspective, in effect to make sure you don't 'drink out of everyone's cistern' as Nietzsche says, living in cities would be a bad thing, rather than good.

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#29

Post by anonydsfsfs »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #22
anonydsfsfs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nietzsche was likely driven insane by CADASIL leading to frontotemporal dementia[1]. CADASIL is a genetic disorder and has nothing to do with being solitary. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18575181 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17087793

> a genetic disorder and has nothing to do with being solitary. You don't really know that. We know very well that weak social ties aggravate all kinds of health problems. Extensive time alone is probably worse for you than smoking. It's perfectly plausible the Nietzche's habit of spending many weeks alone at a time brought about his early demise.

You are certainly correct that weak social ties can aggravate health problems, but there's no indication that was the case with Nietzsche. The median onset of stroke in people with CADASIL is 50 years[1], but Nietzsche was 53 or 54 when he had his first stroke, so he beat the odds.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15364702

Re: Nietzsche on Solitude

#30

Post by dmoo »

ak39 wrote: post #20
Kenji wrote: post #8

Solitude makes me insane. Yes, I am more productive, but I also become highly unstable. It's a tradeoff. At the end of the day, I value my mental wellbeing more than my productivity. But good friends are hard to find, and I'd rather be alone than put up with the wrong people. Edit: Now I really feel like reading Nietzsche again.

I relate to this. I like the way you make it clear that given a choice between sanity and productivity, you choose the former. But is this not a false dichotomy, I wonder? I hope! For me, prolonged absence of close company quickly begins to feel like low-grade depression ... or general melancholy. I used to enjoy solitude, but the years and the birth of my children has shifted most of the time I used to crave for mys…

This makes me think of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. I don't know if its your kind of think but there is a link here somewhere http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9963-PDF-book...
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