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I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

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Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#21

Post by pdabbadabba »

eonw wrote: post #15

i am still struggling to understand how this is important, and why we should care. men have struggles just the same, this is like reverse sexism.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect:

> men have struggles just the same

Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their reactions to events are more likely to be described as "emotional" or "irrational," they are widely considered (without evidence) to be inferior to men in fields like math and science, etc.

Don't forget: until relatively recently, women were widely regarded (in both law and society) as the property or either their father or, once married, husband. This is still the prevailing view in much of the world. And debates like this still go on: http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-women-the-property-of-the...

Under these conditions, it seems natural to expect that women face a lot of unique challenges, to put it mildly--and that expectation is indeed born out by the actual experiences of many women.

Discussing these issues is important because it is a crucial part of our shared efforts to eliminate these phenomenon.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#22

Post by crindy »

untog wrote: post #3
ryanobjc wrote: post #2

One thing I have learned from my wonderful partner is stories like this can be incredibly alienating to women who don't fit into them. For example, the "all women get catcalled" - my partner notes that since she never gets catcalled, she must be too ugly. So what about the women who have an entirely different kind of experience? This article is a classic: https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a..…

Is the implication here that we shouldn't let women tell any stories unless their experience is an utterly universal one experienced by every woman? Just seems like a way to derail a worthwhile project like this. It is clearly collecting a wide variety of stories, and IMO that's worthwhile. After all, minorities - by definition - don't have universal experiences, but surely they're still worth telling?

I thought the poster just wanted people to avoid generalizing. "All women get catcalled" isn't okay, but "I often get catcalled" is fine.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#23

Post by Mz »

jonnybgood wrote: post #7
ryanobjc wrote: post #2

One thing I have learned from my wonderful partner is stories like this can be incredibly alienating to women who don't fit into them. For example, the "all women get catcalled" - my partner notes that since she never gets catcalled, she must be too ugly. So what about the women who have an entirely different kind of experience? This article is a classic: https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a..…

You're correct. Something else that's noticable here is that they're all white women.

Just a quick preview of one video indicates they aren't all white. A lot are, but not all.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#24

Post by eonw »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #21
eonw wrote: post #15

i am still struggling to understand how this is important, and why we should care. men have struggles just the same, this is like reverse sexism.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

that's all fine and dandy, but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance... better start subsidizing their jobs too?

men and women were both given the same choice of universities and classes in high school. the tech sector did not turn its back on women or minorities, they turned their back on it. now that its profitable they want a piece of that pie.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#25

Post by zorpner »

eonw wrote: post #24
pdabbadabba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

that's all fine and dandy, but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance... better start subsidizing their jobs too? men and women were both given the same choice of universities and classes in high school. the tech sector did not turn its back on women or minorities, they turned their back on it. now that its profitable they want a piece of that…

It's exhausting to keep having this same conversation over and over, but I suppose that's the purpose of comments like yours.

Look at the graduation rates for women and minorities from CS programs; then look at the industry participation rates, particularly over time and particularly with reference to seniority. They're not turning their back on tech, they're being driven out.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#26

Post by no1ne »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #21
eonw wrote: post #15

i am still struggling to understand how this is important, and why we should care. men have struggles just the same, this is like reverse sexism.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

let me ask you this simple question, whether you take it in context or not is upto you :) ... do you really think and know I might add, that there are no differences between men and women? especially in their brains??

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#27

Post by beachstartup »

eonw wrote: post #24
pdabbadabba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

that's all fine and dandy, but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance... better start subsidizing their jobs too? men and women were both given the same choice of universities and classes in high school. the tech sector did not turn its back on women or minorities, they turned their back on it. now that its profitable they want a piece of that…

it's always been profitable. but now it's socially acceptable, even prestigious depending on your role. big difference.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#28

Post by pdabbadabba »

no1ne wrote: post #26
pdabbadabba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

let me ask you this simple question, whether you take it in context or not is upto you :) ... do you really think and know I might add, that there are no differences between men and women? especially in their brains??

I am sure there are differences. But I do not assume, like some, that these differences -- whatever they are -- coincidentally make women worse at the tasks that our society deems economically and politically important.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#29

Post by Joeboy »

Animats wrote: post #6

The page won't render properly because Ghostery blocks some Adobe feature as a tracker.

I have the Adobe one whitelisted and it doesn't work for me either. Can't be arsed to work out why.

Edit: I guess these are the videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCogU9fanQxHuSDcKXunHOgg/vid...

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#30

Post by pdabbadabba »

eonw wrote: post #24
pdabbadabba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

that's all fine and dandy, but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance... better start subsidizing their jobs too? men and women were both given the same choice of universities and classes in high school. the tech sector did not turn its back on women or minorities, they turned their back on it. now that its profitable they want a piece of that…

Yes, I am all for greater male participation in the child-care industry. (I really am!) So say we all. Are you satisfied? Will you now please join us on in constructively discussing the exclusion of women from tech, law, science, politics, accounting, carpentry, the military... and how to fix it?

If the child care industry were representative of men's exclusion from most high paying, socially powerful fields, then I would expect the 'bitching' to begin. But, as it is, the child-care field is not a field that a lot of men would like to get into, it pays fairly poorly, (unfortunately) confers little power or respect, and is largely an anomaly in an economy where most jobs, especially powerful ones are dominated by men.

The "confers little power and respect" bit, by the way, seems to be true of most woman-dominated fields (child care, teaching, nursing...). Do you suppose this is a coincidence?

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