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CS for All

cs.hmc.edu

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: CS for All

#21

Before we move to CS for all, can we at least solve the problem of Computer Literacy for all!? There's a huge population of people who simply cannot effectively use a computer. Can we fix that first? Otherwise we're leaving them behind and that's not right.

I tend to think computer literacy is the wrong approach. I think the right approach looks like "interfaces that don't require literacy" (one of the reasons why I think human-quality NLU for command & control systems are going to be amazing). Most people don't need most of the functionality of a computer.

Re: CS for All

#22

Before we move to CS for all, can we at least solve the problem of Computer Literacy for all!? There's a huge population of people who simply cannot effectively use a computer. Can we fix that first? Otherwise we're leaving them behind and that's not right.

How about we try to solve them simultaneously?

A huge proportion of the population doesn't have the knowledge to make healthy meals.

A huge proportion of the population does not know how to manage a few acres of crops, raise chicken and cows for milk and eggs, etc.

How about we try to solve them simultaneously?

Re: CS for All

#23
This looks like it would make for a very nice course -- a good middle ground between the hardcore practical course ("let's learn C") and the hardcore theoretical course ("let's do denotational semantics with Scheme" -- or whatever).

Re: CS for All

#24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we try to solve them simultaneously?

A huge proportion of the population doesn't have the knowledge to make healthy meals. A huge proportion of the population does not know how to manage a few acres of crops, raise chicken and cows for milk and eggs, etc. How about we try to solve them simultaneously?

Sounds good.

In fact, I think we are trying to solve them simultaneously.

Re: CS for All

#26
post #7

>At Mudd, this course is taken by almost every first-year student—irrespective of the student’s ultimate major—as part of our core curriculum. Thus, it serves as a first computing course for future CS majors and a first and last computing course for many other students. This is a great thing to offer students and I wish my University had made this a part of the curriculum. Somehow I managed to have practically zero e…

I think it's a good idea, but fwiw it's not CS-specific. Harvey Mudd's idea isn't that CS is so uniquely important that everyone should take it, but rather than everyone should take a lot of things, regardless of major, and CS is one of those things. The curriculum is designed with a philosophy of fairly broad education, kind of in line with a liberal-arts college ideal, but with more of a STEM flavor. I was a CS maj…

I didn't know "technical liberal-arts" colleges really existed. That's cool. As a student at a more traditional liberal-arts college[1], it's something I've thought about before.

[1] albeit one with a massively growing CS curriculum that is on track to be its own major, instead of part of the math department

Re: CS for All

#27
post #7

>At Mudd, this course is taken by almost every first-year student—irrespective of the student’s ultimate major—as part of our core curriculum. Thus, it serves as a first computing course for future CS majors and a first and last computing course for many other students. This is a great thing to offer students and I wish my University had made this a part of the curriculum. Somehow I managed to have practically zero e…

I think it's a good idea, but fwiw it's not CS-specific. Harvey Mudd's idea isn't that CS is so uniquely important that everyone should take it, but rather than everyone should take a lot of things, regardless of major, and CS is one of those things. The curriculum is designed with a philosophy of fairly broad education, kind of in line with a liberal-arts college ideal, but with more of a STEM flavor. I was a CS maj…

FWIW, Harvey Mudd is part of the Claremont Consortium of five small liberal arts colleges, and it considers itself a liberal arts college: https://www.hmc.edu/about-hmc/

> We’re also unique because we are a liberal arts college.

Traditionally, the "liberal arts" include mathematics and physical sciences alongside arts, humanities and social sciences.

Re: CS for All

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The University of British Columbia also has something similar, CS110 which uses a subset of Racket (Beginning/Intermediate/Advanced Student Language) to teach core CS concepts to a wide range of students. The course videos are all available on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7dEjIUwSxSNcW4PqNRQW8w/pla... and I believe the "Systematic Program Design" courses on EdX are an expanded version of the course.

Interestingly there is a common tie between Mudd and UBC: Maria Klawe (a truly inspirational woman). I would t doubt she had her part in both these courses.

Just based on her timeline at UBC, I don't think she would have. CS 110's first pilot offering was in 2009 (I was one of a few dozen students to choose it over the existing CS111) whereas she left the department in 1995, and the school in 2002 (between those she was involved in the faculty of Science as a whole). At most, she would have been part of the early planning stages or discussions of the course, although perhaps she could have been an informal advisor through the years after her departure.

Re: CS for All

#29

Before we move to CS for all, can we at least solve the problem of Computer Literacy for all!? There's a huge population of people who simply cannot effectively use a computer. Can we fix that first? Otherwise we're leaving them behind and that's not right.

Those of us in computing sometimes tend to forget that there's a whole world of people for whom computers are not a passion, they are simply something they have to deal with whether they like it or not.

I know MD's who have no love or interest in computers at all. No interest in becoming "computer literate" as defined by people like us. These are not dinosaurs. Yet, some of them live in a world where pen-and-paper are more efficient and safer than paging through text boxes in a shitty UI on an equally shitty medical data entry program.

Some of them couldn't scan-and-email a document if their lives depended on it. They screw-up sending links to websites and have crap spread all over their computers rather than organized in a sensible way within a directory structure.

This is either a case of literacy or one where computers and UI design still have a lot to be desired before any human being can walk-up to a computer and get things done. And, BTW, this isn't a Mac vs. PC issue as these people are equally clueless regardless of platform.

I know music teachers who can barely send email and school teachers who get flustered within anything more complex than an iPad.

None of these people are stupid.

And, to some extent, I am not sure anyone needs to actively pursue a "solution". Most of this will resolve itself with generations of people who grew up with computers. Sad to put it that way, but I think there might be a degree of truth in that.

I've made this comment multiple times: I told my son that his generation is likely to be the last to actually drive a car. It is almost guaranteed that his kids will have no need to drive a car and will, instead, use fully automated vehicles. A human driving a car might become a recreational activity. Two hundred years ago nobody would have though of running or jogging as a recreational activity. Today we do.

The point is, things change, some are left behind and some adapt.

Re: CS for All

#30

Before we move to CS for all, can we at least solve the problem of Computer Literacy for all!? There's a huge population of people who simply cannot effectively use a computer. Can we fix that first? Otherwise we're leaving them behind and that's not right.

This. I believe very strongly in the importance of touch-typing. I went to an inner city school for elementary and high school. And when I arrived at university computer science I felt like I was light years behind my peers. A lot of that stemmed from not being able to type as fast as them. Hunting and pecking typing while trying to wrap your head around making abstractions and recursion is enough to make anyone frustrated.

Teach touch-typing!

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