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Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

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Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#21
post #8

Chinese education kills the real genius, but does make the ordinary kids a skillful engineer(relatively), so the best kids still want to go overseas while the rest can do math better than any other west countries after repeatedly practice. The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage), however the demanding on the average kids are too little, many kids gave up or dr…

I'll pull out one part of your comment to ask a question: you wrote, The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage) and I would like to ask, where does that happen? What place in the United States allows the top kids to fly freely? I ask, because I interact online most regularly with parents who have children identified as gifted children through regional Talent Sear…

So keep in mind this was a decade ago and I'm sure it's changed but when I was in highschool in Florida you could go Dual-Enrollment and the district would pay for any class and reimburse you for books. I went to college with my first three semesters of college finished. While that was particularly open handed many districts will at least pay tuition for what ever advanced classes you can test into as long as it fits the curriculum (X english classes, Y math classes...).

My local community college implies that sophmores and above (including home schoolers) can take any 1000 level or above class free (although the highschool gets veto power).

http://www.cnm.edu/depts/outreach/dual-credit/dual-credit-th...

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#22
I went to a public school in England (ie. fee-paying) and it wasn't too dissimilar from this. Hours were 9am-9pm for classes, two meals, afternoon sport and evening study. Copying everything from the whiteboard was standard for a lot of classes. The only major difference would be class sizes, which were kept to 10-15 per lesson instead of 50.

Maybe they're really just discovering the benefits of a bit of hard work and discipline.

Edit: I've also never really understood why British state schools let kids out at 2-3pm. Why not just keep them til 6pm when their parents get off work? It saves the parents huge trouble over childcare, whilst also having a demonstrably better effect on their education.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#23
This is an extremely shallow work on education. All they know about Chinese-style education is "note-taking and repetition", "copy notes". Really? Do you really believe this is how Chinese students can be best at PISA assessment? Was PISA assessment designed based on Chinese students' notes?

Chinese/Asian students do work harder than western students, on average. But hard-working is not rote learning, nor does this mean rote learning is everything about "Chinese-style education". Equalizing Asian education to rote learning is a misconception has been denied by tons of studies. See examples:

- http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1004036826490

- http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0361476X84....

Just search "rote learning asian" in google scholar, you will see.

The "experiment" / report superficially based on this stereotype won't produce much meaningful results.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#24

It made me kind of sad when the British students preferred copying things from a chalkboard. I tried to implement a flipped classroom -- 15 minutes of "lecture" at the beginning, 25 minutes of group practice, 15 minutes of individual practice, then a 5 minute formative assessment/quiz -- when I taught chemistry in a low-income public high school in Mississippi. My students were really disoriented at first and preferr…

I taught English for 5 years in Japan (even though completely unqualified... cough... cough...). In my last year I did something very similar. The thing that got me to change was that I started tracking how much time I spent 1-1 with each of my students. If you are lecture focussed, you end up spending mere minutes a year actually interacting with an individual student. I remember setting myself a goal of spending 10 minutes with each student every term (still woefully insufficient!!!) and realizing that it was impossible unless I radically changed the class structure.

I actually moved the assessment/quiz to the beginning of the class as a "review", followed by 5 minutes of questions. This allowed students to gauge how they were doing cold "out of the gate". Often the students would realize that they were having a problem and we would expand this section before we moved on. In a survey that I made of the students, this was actually the most popular part of the class (which surprised me initially).

Next, I did 5 minutes of "lecture". Keeping it to 5 minutes was almost impossible, but I got better over time. Then I did "circling". This is a technique where you make grammar constructions more visible through questioning. For example, "John is a brown dog", "Who is a brown dog?", "What is John?", "What colour is John?", "What kind of animal is John?", "Is John a goldfish?". I do a random walk through the students and make sure that everyone understands the day's concept. (For some reason I can't find a good link with a description of circling. It is originally a technique from TPRS if anyone is interested to search for themselves).

Finally, there is group practice. Essentially I made the students solve logic puzzles in English (I disguised them as "games", but it boils down to this). They were allowed to use any resource they wanted to in order to answer the questions (including asking me, asking their friends, looking up things in dictionaries, etc). I did not enforce an "English only" policy because these were very low level students who had self esteem issues, but I had a sheet with everybody's name on it and every time I heard someone use English to ask/answer a question I would give them bonus marks. This was essentially their "classroom participation" mark.

Another successful idea for the group work at the beginning of the year was to have a series of difficult questions. The students then had to write down the name of somebody in the class who knew the answer to the question (The game was called "find someone who knows"). The idea was to integrate the higher level students and make them a valuable resource for the lower level students. Generally speaking, the high level students usually want to impress, so they do things like answer all the questions put to them in English. This worked surprisingly well (though probably partly due to peculiarities with Japanese social systems).

I only got to touch the surface of this before my contract ran out. I decided to go back to being a programmer rather than pursue a career of teaching, but it was an eye opening experience. I couldn't believe the difference it made to stop concentrating on presenting material and start concentrating on my students. So instead of explaining things, I simply watched them try to figure it out for themselves, giving them advice from time to time.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#25
post #8

Chinese education kills the real genius, but does make the ordinary kids a skillful engineer(relatively), so the best kids still want to go overseas while the rest can do math better than any other west countries after repeatedly practice. The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage), however the demanding on the average kids are too little, many kids gave up or dr…

I'll pull out one part of your comment to ask a question: you wrote, The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage) and I would like to ask, where does that happen? What place in the United States allows the top kids to fly freely? I ask, because I interact online most regularly with parents who have children identified as gifted children through regional Talent Sear…

As someone who was identified as gifted and talented in Australia, I think the parents often want things that are not particularly useful, eg early university entry, or their goal is some special university program.

In high school I did training for the international mathematics Olympiads (which was too much work but otherwise a great program) and that was all the extra input I really needed. In university I did an ordinary math program, and my parents really didn't understand that the math department is more than capable of challenging high iq students.

I feel that the system let me "fligh freely" because I always had access to challenging material if I wanted it (I also did debating). However my parents weren't satisfied because they wanted to be provided with a clear path from my youthful intelligence to future success.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really normal for American high school teachers to lecture for the entire period? No exercises, just note-taking? I hazard to guess that the British students prefer copying things from a chalkboard because it's a novelty and requires considerably less effort than doing exercises. If they did it on a regular basis they'd quickly get bored.

Depends on the class. History tends to have a lot of lectures. Science classes, math and English I don't recall as many (this was about 10 years ago). Also varies by teacher and I would assume school.

Math is probably the class that most easily follows this pattern: the teacher demonstrates how to solve a category of problem, the entire class practices it together with the teacher calling on students to provide answers, then after students are confidently solving the problem together they try to solve them independently -- a process that usually continues after class with homework problem sets.

Science classes in higher-income schools often follow this method too -- present a problem/question, introduce some bit of science knowledge, then investigate with a lab -- but low-income schools lack the resources to do lots of labs and as a result it's a lot of copying vocab/notes and doing problem sets that tend to be vocabulary-heavy.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the class. History tends to have a lot of lectures. Science classes, math and English I don't recall as many (this was about 10 years ago). Also varies by teacher and I would assume school.

Math is probably the class that most easily follows this pattern: the teacher demonstrates how to solve a category of problem, the entire class practices it together with the teacher calling on students to provide answers, then after students are confidently solving the problem together they try to solve them independently -- a process that usually continues after class with homework problem sets. Science classes in…

Yeah, I think that sounds reasonable to me. I was thinking about my history classes more and there was a decent amount of interaction, just my memory about it was a bit fuzzy, since I haven't thought about the classes themselves in some years.

It had a decent amount of q/a and discussion, but it's rather hard to escape lectures in history. They didn't bother me though, since I had great history teachers that knew their stuff and made the lectures themselves interesting through anecdotes and personal experience. History was always my favorite subject, even though I obtained a degree in computer science.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#28
post #8

Chinese education kills the real genius, but does make the ordinary kids a skillful engineer(relatively), so the best kids still want to go overseas while the rest can do math better than any other west countries after repeatedly practice. The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage), however the demanding on the average kids are too little, many kids gave up or dr…

People go to overseas to have a better life, mostly. Being in developing world is not healthy. Competition makes you stronger, but pressure and having to worry about living is not healthy for a free mind. Education system cannot change those fundamental issues.

Re: Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?

#29

It made me kind of sad when the British students preferred copying things from a chalkboard. I tried to implement a flipped classroom -- 15 minutes of "lecture" at the beginning, 25 minutes of group practice, 15 minutes of individual practice, then a 5 minute formative assessment/quiz -- when I taught chemistry in a low-income public high school in Mississippi. My students were really disoriented at first and preferr…

> I actually had to tell them not to copy everything off my 15 minute presentations because they could just print it later or view it on their phones, and I'd rather they actively engage with the material.

I don't know about your students but when I was in school copying things down was exactly how I engaged with the material. The act of transcription was how I remembered it -- I wouldn't even review the notes again later.

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