Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

lukew.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 241 posts

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#191

Post by err4nt »

DanBC wrote: post #133
err4nt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have I been on sites where I wished zoom was enabled? Yes Have I been on sites where I wished zoom was DISabled? Yes The point is, I design my stuff so it feels like a native app. I design my stuff so it is as accessible as the apps that came with the device. Zooming is a feature added to mobile browsers so mobile users have a fallback to view websites that dont support mobile screen sizes, but designing websites for…

> Without zooming, how do you all use things on your phones that ARENT websites? They don't zoom either... Yes they do! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204390 >> Zoom >> To enable Zoom, use three fingers and double-tap the screen. >> To increase the level of Zoom, use three fingers to double-tap and hold, then move your fingers up or down on the screen to increase or decrease magnification. > If I enable zooming fo…

Wouldn't this device-level accessibility zooming not allow the user to also zoom in on a website in Mobile Safari that had user-scaling disabled?

It sounds like your point supports my point!

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#192

Post by err4nt »

Lewton wrote: post #137
err4nt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have I been on sites where I wished zoom was enabled? Yes Have I been on sites where I wished zoom was DISabled? Yes The point is, I design my stuff so it feels like a native app. I design my stuff so it is as accessible as the apps that came with the device. Zooming is a feature added to mobile browsers so mobile users have a fallback to view websites that dont support mobile screen sizes, but designing websites for…

I've yet to see a web-app designed to look native, that worked better for me than the normal website would have on my phone. This is why I'm so skeptical

It's not about looking native, it's about being as easy to use as a native app instead of feeling like you're controlling a desktop website with a touchscreen interface.

I use VNC on my iOS devices all the time - I pan and zoom around and use actual desktop apps and browsers from mobile devices. I guarantee this is not the most optimal way to control things from a mobile device!

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#193

Post by DanBC »

err4nt wrote: post #182
DanBC wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why you would add css that diasbles zoom. Do everything you currently do, but don't add "user-scalable=0" to the css. Doing so provides no benefit to anyone, but does make your pages harder to use for a large section of users. You still haven't listed the benefits of disabling zoom.

User scaling is more than just the zoom gesture, it's a different way of controlling the web page in Mobile Safari, and because of these differences the user experience is quite different. With User Scaling enabled, you can use the zoom gesture, pinch gesture, or double-tap gesture to scale the viewport. But how does Mobile Safari know the difference between a single-tap and a double-tap? By waiting 300ms after the f…

You might want to read some more up to date guidance.

See eg this: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2013/12/300ms-tap-...

Stop being user hostile. It's illegal in your jurisdiction; your customers do not know what you're doing and almost certainly wouldn't want you to do it if they did understand; and the users hate it.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#194

Post by gknoy »

chronomex wrote: post #190
brudgers wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your program needs to calculate what date that is Yes it does, Qnd that is harder for the programmer and easier for the user. Calendar wudguts suck for: > last week of august next year. Twenty years ago parsing user input and calculating a date was resource constrained and ambiguity was expensive because the query was hitting Sabre on some mainframe. Today we've got gigahertz and gigabytes in our pockets and we'r…

And yet we still have to manually query every combination of departure and return dates to find reasonable airfare.

That's less a fault of our interface devices, and more that the airlines are not in the business of giving us the cheaper fares. ;) I'm sure they'd be happiest to suggest fares that were cheaper than competitors, yet 3x the price of a different day's fare for the same trip.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#195

Post by BonoboBoner »

justuk wrote: post #106
cjsaylor wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about lowest common denominator. It's about what devices users are actually using to browse your site. If you make an awesome desktop version of the site at the expense of mobile, but majority are visiting on a small device, then you are alienating the majority. You have to keep perspective of why your are building something; if it is not for the users, then it is pointless.

It seems like a step backwards in sophistication all because these mobile devices were grouped into the same category as desktop. We go from tools that look like they were aimed at adults to simplistic toys. I see it all the time in user comments when websites switch to responsive designs. It's like we don't give a damn about desktop users because they are no longer fashionable.

So true. I hate it when CMS administration areas are rewritten to be responsive and end up wasting a huge amount of space on the screen. A CMS admin area is a power user , that most people us on their computer.

Yet characteristics such as high information density and very accurate mouse interaction are all thrown out of the window, because of how the admin looks like on a phone.

How is it responsive to ALL devices, when mobile first enforces such restrictions on a design.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#196

Post by BonoboBoner »

charlesarthur wrote: post #120
justuk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like desktop is taking a hit for the team because a less sophisticated member is tagging along. I watch all these websites convert over to responsive designs and very few of them are a step forward. It's like they've gone from tools aimed at adults to toys for children.

What's happened is that they've gone to "sites with smaller viewports and less precise input methods because they don't have a mouse and keyboard attached". And in case it had also passed you by, mobile is the predominant method of browsing for a huge number of sites all over the world. Consider Google, which says that mobile search outnumbers desktop in 10 major countries. Do you hear Larry Page moaning about how pe…

> mobile is the predominant method of browsing for a huge number of sites all over the world.

That is not an excuse to give up on high information density on the desktop, just because your headings have to be ridicoulessly big for mobile.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#197

Post by tajen »

err4nt wrote: post #189
tajen wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop disabling zoom, period. You mention you are properly trained. Who trained you, so we can fix them too ;) ? (joking)

My training was in graphic design, and the web training we got in college was behind where I was self-taught in web before getting to college, they only covered the basics. By leaving the User Scaling on, the browser slows down all of your taps 300ms to wait and see if your single-tap is really a double-tap to scale the page. By disabling User Scaling, your interactions are read as soon as you make them, leaving you…

The assertion "responsive = 300ms = no zoom" discredits any resume with written "responsive" on it. Because, if you remain stubborn even after a crowd tells you they need to zoom, then you lack the basic skills to drive user interviews.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#198

Post by err4nt »

DanBC wrote: post #193
err4nt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User scaling is more than just the zoom gesture, it's a different way of controlling the web page in Mobile Safari, and because of these differences the user experience is quite different. With User Scaling enabled, you can use the zoom gesture, pinch gesture, or double-tap gesture to scale the viewport. But how does Mobile Safari know the difference between a single-tap and a double-tap? By waiting 300ms after the f…

You might want to read some more up to date guidance. See eg this: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2013/12/300ms-tap-... Stop being user hostile. It's illegal in your jurisdiction; your customers do not know what you're doing and almost certainly wouldn't want you to do it if they did understand; and the users hate it.

I am aware of this, but most iOS users do not use Chrome. I am also aware of FastClick and Google's FastButton as well, and I have even used them where the need applied.

https://github.com/alexblack/google-fastbutton

Nothing I said was untrue about iOS, and my comments never mentioned Chrome, but I spoke about and linked to Mobile Safari documentation.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#199

Post by qmalxp »

userbinator wrote: post #2

IMHO the best option for inputting a small integer value is the combination of a text field and a stepper, which has been around for a long time and has its own name (for touchscreen operation, the +/- buttons could be made larger and horizontally, like the steppers shown): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinner_(computing) For dates, a calendar control would probably be appropriate. I'm a bit puzzled as to why dropdo…

IMO the best choice for a calendar is three separate boxes clearly labeled "MM", "DD", and "YYYY" in some order, preferably with the property that once the second (or fourth) character is typed, the cursor is automatically tabbed over to the next box.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#200

Post by leeleelee »

err4nt wrote: post #192
Lewton wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see a web-app designed to look native, that worked better for me than the normal website would have on my phone. This is why I'm so skeptical

It's not about looking native, it's about being as easy to use as a native app instead of feeling like you're controlling a desktop website with a touchscreen interface. I use VNC on my iOS devices all the time - I pan and zoom around and use actual desktop apps and browsers from mobile devices. I guarantee this is not the most optimal way to control things from a mobile device!

What are the cons of enabling zoom? Are there any?
Post reply on HN