Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#191

Post by sjtgraham » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

Joeboy wrote: post #178

oldmanjay wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has only watched this popcorn feast, I have the sense that she was the subject of vitriol primarily for taking actions that people didn't like. Many of the insults may well have targeted her gender, but that is not the same thing at all. I have seen literally no evidence that she was harassed simply for being a woman.

It seems like the major source of antipathy towards her was the firing of Victoria Taylor, which happened on her watch, but was actually done by a man who is still at the company, and nobody seems to want him fired. It's entirely possible I have some or all of my facts wrong, but this is what I understand to be the case.

The buck stops with the CEO.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#192

Post by unchocked » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

ljk wrote: post #98

It's interesting how fast people go from hating[1] /u/kn0thing to love[2] him again [1]: https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/3bwgjf/riama... [2]: https://pay.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cucye/an_ol...

I think it has to do with how mob psychology latches onto whatever is bright and shiny. So a character with both pros and cons in the mass narrative is able to be demonized one day and lionized the next, based on whichever trait sparkled more that day.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#193

Post by jacobwcarlson » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #91

lingben wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything about their saga is bizarre. Did you know that up until his marriage to Ellen, Buddy had lived as a homosexual? he was living with a partner of multiple years (Hobart “Bo” Fowlkes) and was openly gay. Not that there is anything odd or wrong about that. It is just rather strange how these two polarizing figures came together in a union. For more info and details see: http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/…

The article states that Buddy lived with a boyfriend, which is not the same as living as a homosexual, as he might be bisexual. Some other articles state that he was "openly gay", but perhaps those articles are slightly incorrect.

The VF article also states that Fletcher dated exclusively women while at Harvard, and that "Fowlkes wasn’t surprised that his former boyfriend had become involved with a woman."

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#194

Post by amyjess » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #107

amyjess wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removal of several employees, likely because they wouldn't/didn't relocate to SF. Let's be perfectly honest here: that was Yishan's thing. He announced that change and set it into motion before he resigned.

? I thought Yishan left because he wasn't a fan of moving to SF. e: half correct, they were in SF, moving to a new SF office but he wanted instead for the new office to be in Daly City: "Then, when it came time to relocate from one San Francisco office to another, Wong put his foot down, Reddit sources say, and said he wanted to move the company to Daly City. “I felt that locating an office in San Francisco proper is…

Officially, he left because the board shot down his plans for a new office. Like, right after the board told him no, he said "well, I quit then".

Unofficially, he was burned out, and he used that as his excuse to quit.

(the new office was probably why he wanted everyone to relocate to SF, so everyone could come work at this huge new office he wanted for the team)

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#195

Post by j_baker » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

devindotcom wrote: post #38

Maybe I missed it, but was there ever any information on why Victoria was fired, or whether Pao actually had anything (or everything) to do with it? From where I was sitting, it seemed like no one actually learned the full story, which might be confidential or take time to contextualize/safely explain, and everyone immediately threw it on Pao's lap and downvoted any holding maneuvers she and the rest of the staff tri…

For better or worse, this is life for top executives. Example: the president of the US's popularity is correlated with the economy in spite of the fact that they have very little control over it. It's not uncommon for one executive to do something totally reasonable under hard circumstances only to get ousted anyway while the next person gets the credit for their actions.

"It happened on her watch."

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#196

Post by slg » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

lingben wrote: post #127

MBCook wrote: post #93

I don't like this at all. Even if she wasn't the right person (I don't know), all the worst elements of the site are going to see this as a victory for their awful behavior and it's going to get worse. The people who attacked her with sexism and comments about her personal relationships. The people who supported FPH even though they were attacking people in real life and off Reddit, not just posting comments in their…

> but at least she tried to stand up against some of the worst of Reddit. I'm baffled at how people misunderstand Ellen's actions in shutting down a few subreddits randomly. She did not 'clean' reddit of the worst of reddit nor 'hate' subreddits. In fact, there are still dozens and dozens of really disgusting stuff on reddit like /r/gasthekikes and /r/coontown Let's please stop this false narrative that she was a cha…

Just because she didn't completely clean Reddit doesn't mean she didn't attempt to clean some of it or make the decision to do so a bad move. The existence of some bad communities also shouldn't be used as an excuse to keep other bad communities.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#197

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #182

haroldtootany wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd list 'television' as an interest? Yeesh...

Absolutely - television can be an art to enjoy, just like a great film, piece of music or painting. Sure there's plenty of trash, but the good stuff is so worth it.

It's kind of an odd question to ask someone whose nick is "sharkweek", isn't it?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#198

Post by nabeelahmed13 » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #86

nhf wrote: post #10

I think this was the right thing to do from a PR perspective. Having Steve back as the new CEO will definitely be good for the community. I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS: > As a closing note, it was sickening to see some of the things redditors wrote about Ellen. [1] The reduction in compassion that happens when we’re all behind computer screens is not good for…

> I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS You mean this? > [1] Disagreements are fine. Death threats are not, are not covered under free speech, and will continue to get offending users banned. All that opposition - strong enough to convince "Chairman Pao" to resign - reduced to death threats? All those arbitrary bans written off as a just punishment for criminal behavi…

No one is "reducing" anything.

Altman is not justifying the arbitrary bans (or any Reddit admin shenanigans) here, that is not the topic of this sentence. He is talking strictly about one dangerous activity that gets offenders banned: death threats, which Ellen Pao (the human at the other end) received.

We don't know why Pao went out. We can suspect it was the backlash (more likely), or disagreements with the board [0] but we can suspect.

But that does nothing to make her opposition entirely legitimate, when at its strongest it was hijacked by namecalling, cyber-bullying, and yes, threats to Pao's life. The subset of Redditors who did this deserve to be told how shitty it is. The remaining, legitimate opposition should recognize the distinction.

[0] - http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/technology/ellen-pao-reddi...

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#199

Post by calbear81 » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

josso wrote: post #68

onewaystreet wrote: post #43

> “It became clear that the board and I had a different view on the ability of Reddit to grow this year,” Ms. Pao said in an interview. “Because of that, it made sense to bring someone in that shared the same view.” Does this mean that the board thought Pao was being too aggressive in pushing growth or not aggressive enough ? If it's the latter then the Reddit community is in for a shock.

Not aggressive enough: > So why am I leaving? Ultimately, the board asked me to demonstrate higher user growth in the next six months than I believe I can deliver while maintaining reddit’s core principles. http://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/3cudi0/resignation_tha...

I can see how growing users organically was going to be tough, especially with the new community guidelines:

1) Pushing commercial IamAs was going to have a two-fold effect: increasing revenue and increasing traffic. Traffic would have basically come from Fortune 500 brands paying to drive traffic to Reddit via TV, online ads, etc. Companies today drive users to their own sites or to branded channels on YouTube or Facebook but not to Reddit. Sponsored IAmAs might have helped create a new stream of mainstream users but would have generated a large backlash with the moderators and the current rules on IamA (non-commercial).

2) Banning morally dubious but wildly popular content - The Fappening BROKE reddit. It drove so much traffic and introduced reddit to so many new users that by holding themselves to now a different standard of community policing, they are also banning from content that drives a lot of traffic growth. Celebrity, gossip and scandal brings all the eyeballs and $$$ to the yard.

The only logical place for the type of growth they are looking for is mobile hence the push for more video content and anything that capitalizes on how people consume content now-a-days.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#200

Post by puranjay » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

As someone who frequents only a couple of subs on Reddit (which were completely insulated from this fiasco), I have no idea why people were so pissed off.

So she made a bad decision. Big fcking deal.

"She's killing the community!". Well, if your idea of 'community' is making public rape threads (while you use a throwaway) and threaten to kill a person, then maybe your community deserves to die.

Reddit has a lot* of good. I've been there long enough to see it. But it has a lot of absolute low-lifes clogging its sewers as well.