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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#191
post #137

The CS department at the German university I work for started offering their lectures in English a number of years back. While a very good command of English is not uncommon in other parts of Europe, such as e.g. Scandinavia, this move is remarkable in my opinion because English is (more or less) ubiquitous only in the younger generation in Germany. A lot of middle-aged people do not speak English, or only at a very…

In the Netherlands I see something similar, in that Dutch people are actually too enthousiastic to speak English—many of my expat friends tell me that when they try to speak Dutch, people will respond in English. Not speaking Dutch is all fine while you’re on your student visum in an English speaking environment, but it breaks down when you have to pay taxes or get a letter from the immigration office—all that is in…

> Not speaking Dutch is all fine while you’re on your student visum in an English speaking environment, but it breaks down when you have to pay taxes or get a letter from the immigration office—all that is in Dutch.

Denmark has gone to the next level and even this is largely in English now too, which makes it even harder / less motivating for foreigners to learn Danish. Most government websites are dual-language, and every civil-service employee speaks English. Many state agencies (and banks, pension funds, unions, etc.) now also give recipients an option of Danish or English for receiving official communications, and some actually default to English if you're registered as a non-Danish national, so you'd have to specifically request Danish if you wanted it.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#192
I am doing a PhD here in Germany and I absolutely love it. It's completely free (except for the 300 euro fee per semester, but that includes the UBahn ticket which is like 200 of the 300 fee and is worth it) and I actually get paid really, really well. Plus PhDs are only 3 years and I don't have to deal with TAing and can just research. And because I am a student, I don't have pay taxes because my salary is considered a "stipendium" or whatever. It's quite nice. And where I am living, Frankfurt, which is apparently very expensive, is still cheap to me.

But, as others have said in this thread, there are drawbacks, which have been addressed. But that's true of anything anywhere.

So overall I highly recommend Germany for studies. Plus German is just a cool language to know as well.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#193
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about it being completely free. The whole point is how 235€ or even 1000€ per semester is nothing compared to tens of thousands americans pay in tuiton. Top universities in the US like MIT and Stanford charge over $40000 per year. With half of that you could comfortably live as a student in Germany for a year with all expenses paid. I live as a student in Germany on 650€/mo. That's less than $10000 a year.

Until recently we paid 500€ in Bavaria per semester additionally to the around 50€ we still have to pay and abolishing it made quite the difference, especially to people whose parents don't earn that much.

May I ask how much a student should expect to pay for housing and food per semester?

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#194

As a german who works for a german university, i would like to point out that studying is actually not totally free. Here at the University of applied sciences in Münster, you would have to pay a total 235€ every six month, consisting of a social contribution of 85.44€ and a student body contribution of 145.75€, for which you will get a ticket for free travel by bus or by train inside North Rhine-Westphalia for the w…

I wish I would have known these things on graduation from high school. Limiting one's options to US schools can be hazardous to your financial health. Our system is terrible.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you maybe explain a little more how the "US values broadness of thinking and knowledge ... much higher than Germany"? Do you have some concrete examples in mind?

Based on experience in both the U.S. and Danish university systems (not the German one, but I believe it shares some similarities), the U.S. university education has a bigger focus on interdisciplinarity, where you focus on a major but also are required to take courses in other disciplines. The Danish system focuses specifically on the major. If you major in CS in Denmark, you will take CS courses and only CS courses…

Not the same, CS majors in Germany have to choose one "Anwendungsfach" that consist of a subset of classes of natural-sciences, humanities or engineering majors. You have to choose one and stick with it. Also there is the "Nichttechisches Wahlpflichtfach" (probably the most german words I know) which can be a language class or mentoring first-semesters or something similar. So I feel like we get a lot of interdisciplinarity.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#196
post #146

> [The] German admissions process [...] is vastly different than it is in the United States [...] It's much more transparent, and it is entirely academic based [...] There are no recommendations or extensive resumes. This is exactly the way University admission should be handled. It's much the same throughout Europe and the UK. I would hate to have had to go through the hoop jumping exercise of the US college admissi…

Absolutely not in my opinion. What about students that have to work while going to school? I had to do this and I can assure you that it really hurt my GPA. Other more well off students will of course have higher GPAs because they can afford not to work and can pay tutors. These students who have worked full time or have faced other difficulties will not be able to explain why their academics are lacking if it's enti…

But it's not just interest, it's ability to complete the course. Sure I might be interested in Mathematics, but terrible at it. What's the point of admitting me to an Honours Maths cousre? Also, there are usually strict legal limits on the hours you can work if you're under 16, which is when you'd be studying for the exams required for University admission, so I don't think it'd be much of an issue. Note that I'm thinking of the UK, where University admission is usually at 17 or 18.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#197
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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible for everyone to be a net exporter. At the same time, being a net importer is not in itself a bad thing. The reason the US doesn't have free college for everyone is not because it is a net importer. The US could afford Germany-style benefits; that's not the problem. Canada probably could too.

It's impossible for everyone to be rich, should we not strive to be rich?

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US educators are well aware of the German model. Like you said, we've opted not to go with serious tracking for students. The minimal tracking we already do is controversial as is. It would be a huge ruckus for us to do what the Germans do and start segregating students by ability soon after elementary school. We just value different things differently, and in this particular case we accept less optimal social outcom…

> what the Germans do and start segregating students by ability soon after elementary school It's not that fascist. For one, the parents decide which schools their kids go to, the states can only give recommendations (which are regularly ignored by Special Snowflake Parents). Additionally, the decision is not final. Students can (and do) switch to a higher school form if their grades are good enough, and work their w…

Ah, very interesting then. I lived in Germany for three years, but there are still obviously many aspects of German culture I'm still not 100% on. Thanks for that correction. My understanding from the time (mid 2000s) was that the school tracking happened relatively early and that moves between tracks were infrequent.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#200
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, suburbs were not invented in the "new world" but these countries made them popular, probably with the individual dream of a better life and particular conditions as land availability or cheap oil that leaded to the development of single housing to almost everybody. I'm sure you agree also that suburbs in "old world" (Europe) don't have such a massive presence that they completely imply a certain lif…

Suburbs in America are a byproduct of racism. They were invented when sharecroppers (freed African-American slaves and their children who then became indentured servants/laborers) from the south migrated en masse to the cities of the north and started moving into urban neighborhoods, and the white people fled to the outskirts rather than let black people live among them.

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