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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#191

Post by cplease »

legulere wrote: post #176
smrtinsert wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why IRC isn't the foundation for all chat I still don't know. I assume a lot of the typical workflow (logging in, choosing a nick) can be automated for users who don't care to know what chat protocol they are using.

Because it fails to satisfy so many modern demands. It doesn't even understand user names that aren't a subset of ASCII. Most of the commands aren't really standardized. It doesn't support end-to-end encryption (which today even WhatsApp is using). It requires you to be always connected instead of using push notification systems which are way better for the battery of mobile devices. Probably the only reason the prot…

True enough, but rather than "doesn't support" end-to-end encryption, it doesn't standardize it. You can slap OTR on pretty much any messaging protocol. Client support is a problem though.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#192

Post by darklajid »

hackerboos wrote: post #164
darklajid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Are you saying mom and dad aren't using XMPP because the message is sent using XML based stanzas? Facebook is ditching XMPP because of the X? It doesn't matter?

>And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Saving battery on mobile devices for one.

Wait, wait. We're talking underlying data format here.

Are you saying that serializing something to JSON (or whatever you fancy here) vs. to XML .. saves battery?

I mean, XMPP is certainly not the battery friendliest tech right now (elsewhere people discuss push extensions for example), but .. that's not related to the use of XML.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#193

Post by cplease »

hackerboos wrote: post #164
darklajid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Are you saying mom and dad aren't using XMPP because the message is sent using XML based stanzas? Facebook is ditching XMPP because of the X? It doesn't matter?

>And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Saving battery on mobile devices for one.

Having to support a panoply of marshaling standards would suck battery more, not less. I doubt XML vs. JSON vs. YAML per se makes any substantial difference in CPU usage. You might get a little mileage in going to a compact binary format and reducing data transmission, but is that worth it?

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#195

Post by simoncion »

72deluxe wrote: post #126
simoncion wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We apparently have quite different friends. Removing myself from Hangouts means that I get information either in person, or through email, if at all. I'm currently relying on the Signal rework of TextSecure to get most of us off of Hangouts: the big barrier to adoption has been easy-to-configure clients that work on Android, iOS, and desktop and sync message history amongst clients.

I have the same experience with not being signed into chat networks, or not having Facebook / WhatsApp / Twitter etc. etc. accounts. People either don't tell me anything, or they email. The craziest thing I get asked is "Do you have WhatsApp? I can send you pictures, and it's FREE!". Oddly the thought of sending an email with a picture attached (how easy is it on a phone these days??) doesn't pop into their mind as b…

> Email is far superior...

nod nod

I mention in another thread that if Signal (nee TextSecure) doesn't take off, perhaps what we need is a super-sexy frontend on top of SMTP and IMAP.

> ...Do you have WhatsApp?...

The thing that really gets me going is the folks who will only send pictures with MMS.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#196

Post by TaylorAlexander »

runn1ng wrote: post #111
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what we get when we embrace closed platforms. Free Software gets you nice, simple, easy to use services and closed platforms will always manipulate you for their needs. This is why I want to make a Free Hardware cell phone. I have made one wireless product already and wrote the frequency hopping stack myself, but something like a phone needs better data rates and a more advanced protocol. Still, I dream of a…

> Free Software gets you nice, simple, easy to use services While there are many upsides to free software, usability and user friendliness were never one of them. Hackability, sure. But most people don't care, let's be frank. I will use Hacker News because it works despite being proprietary software.

But free software can do things proprietary can't, like maintain trust with the user and provide maximum good. Think about all the good things people could do with facebook but have been blocked because facebook wants to protect their one narrow use case. Social Networks won't reach their full potential until they're totally free software, because facebook has such narrow interests.

So sure, you're happy for now, but billions of people are getting spied on and getting sick of it, and out of work programmers are increasing for number every year. As users get more fed up with proprietary companies jerking them around, I feel like people will start to demand Free Software. However this may be what all engineers who fall for Free Software think... I make Free Hardware so my plan is to prove why Free is better to people. We'll see if I succeed! I just recently realized that was the issue so I am working on that now.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#197

Post by Johnny_Brahms »

RaleyField wrote: post #171
Johnny_Brahms wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read through some github discussions in the tox github page, and I can't really shake the feeling that they don't know much security. Someone had a question about the protocol design and about how secure it was, and the dev just linked to NaCl and said "read the source here and you will see that tox is secure". It didn't really boost my confidence in their protocol design...

Can you link to the offending conversation?

https://github.com/irungentoo/toxcore/issues/121#issuecommen...

Not as bad as I remembered, but still... meh.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#198

Post by hackerboos »

darklajid wrote: post #192
hackerboos wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Saving battery on mobile devices for one.

Wait, wait. We're talking underlying data format here. Are you saying that serializing something to JSON (or whatever you fancy here) vs. to XML .. saves battery? I mean, XMPP is certainly not the battery friendliest tech right now (elsewhere people discuss push extensions for example), but .. that's not related to the use of XML.

I'm saying pushing a verbose format like XML over mobile radio signals consumes more battery.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#199

Post by hackerboos »

cplease wrote: post #193
hackerboos wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Saving battery on mobile devices for one.

Having to support a panoply of marshaling standards would suck battery more, not less. I doubt XML vs. JSON vs. YAML per se makes any substantial difference in CPU usage. You might get a little mileage in going to a compact binary format and reducing data transmission, but is that worth it?

CPU cycles are cheap compared to bandwidth on mobile.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#200

Post by Havoc »

traitorjoe wrote: post #91
Havoc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah its tedious though. So mostly I just decide it can wait till I get home and have access to a computer.

If you're on Android, you should check out Tinfoil for Facebook. It's a wrapper for facebook's mobile page. I find it more useful than the regular facebook app. You can also get notifications back using IFTTT.

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll check out Tinfoil.

On the whole my FB interaction is fairly minimal and I expect social companies to push the limits so to speak. Such is life. This particular case was just so blatant that I can't help but react with "go shove it a place the sun don't shine" (colloquially speaking).

If they added new functionality & put that into a new app...cool. But to strip existing functionality, block it from existing users and add it to a new app with extended privacy intruding permission...that is simply unforgivable in my books. (FB employees reading this - and I know you are - see sun reference above for exact instructions).

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