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My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

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Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#191

Post by jedc »

wmkn wrote: post #181
jedc wrote: post #172

I used to work for Google and did a ton of interviews for roles where I was the hiring manager, as well as others. One of the more painful things that I came across regularly was that we often had multiple great people go through the full interview process for a role, but could only hire one. Often 2-3 candidates could have done the job brilliantly, but we could only choose one. In that case, it tends to be really su…

Google always has openings for hundreds of engineers. If multiple people did well and the process is so expensive, why not hire all of them?

Good point. Most roles at Google have a specific job req... you find the right person and the job is filled. But there are roles where that's not the case and where what I said doesn't necessarily apply. (That said, I'd argue that the expense that a company takes to interview you is in direct proportion to their interest in you, no matter what else happens in the process.)

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#192

Post by tomp »

bevacqua wrote: post #19
samdk wrote: post #13

Note: after 25 minutes answering questions for a job you really want it’s kinda hard to shift to a question-asking mode. When I was looking for a job I found that it helped enormously to write down a set of questions ahead of time. Some I liked: What does a typical day look like for you? What projects do you work on? How long have you been at $company? How has your role changed since then? If I were hired for this ro…

My favorite question to ask is "If you could change one thing about $company, what would you change and why?"

Would you expect an honest answer to that one?

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#193

Post by drinchev »

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

I totally agree with your opinion.

On the contrary, I've been in a position that I have to decide for applicants ( by doing technical interview ) if they could do the work or can not do it. It was a pleasant job when I can see some sparks of commitment and joy of doing the work. But talking more with the candidates it looked like they had a really hard time, being screened by the HR team, since they didn't have proper profile indicators, like "keywords in the CV", "past experience", "good university degree", "recommendations" and so on.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#194

Post by codecamper »

mtrimpe wrote: post #156
base698 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty awful reason to not even try. From the outside seems like working at any of those listed would be awesome if not just compensation but ability to grow. I tend to err on the side of "I suck" when an interview doesn't go my way. Some people err on the side where everyone else is the problem. Different ways to deal with butt hurt. Disclaimer: I have interviewed at Google and other hard places with mixed…

It's also a matter of mindset and effort. I'm fairly certain I could study for a few weeks and ace the tests. I'm unfortunately also very resistant to doing useless work. When the first interaction with a company involves requiring me to do useless work to prove my commitment (and everyone in the company has passed that hurdle) I very much doubt that I would be... how shall I put it... a good 'culture fit.'

I doubt it would take just a few weeks b4 you could ace the test. They'll ask hard questions that prove a depth of knowledge. The only trouble is that in most day to day programming, you will very rarely require this depth of knowledge about algorithms. So then, if your aim isn't to get one of these jobs, this sort of knowledge is rather useless.

Better to study a new language or statistics / big data. Rather, the most important skill you have day to day is your ability to concentrate & get stuff done. & the ability to take a big problem and turn it into manageable smaller tasks.

I think the focus on algorithms can be an underhanded way to prefer young, fresh out of school applicants. Those with good academic track records and with fresh mitochondria that can be utilized for great coding results.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#195

Post by hackerboos »

robmcm wrote: post #186
skore wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the best interview process is hiring someone as a consultant, and then converting them after a year or so Unfortunately, this is also a "great" way to keep temp employees in constant limbo with the perm job as the carrot and stick. Usually, the temp job also leaves you with a lot less money (particularly because all the perks - insurance etc. - are reserved for proper employees) and, depending on the company, that'…

Ironically it's the opposite in the UK, temp employees in the tech industry typically earn a lot more. In context to the interview I was talking about the perm rate was half of the contract rates they were paying people on the same team.

I concur.

As a contractor in the UK, you are likely not paying National Insurance contributions, are able to write off mileage and other expenses, can reduce your tax liability with dividends. Plus you'd still get access to the NHS.

I'm perm at the moment, but if I was a contractor I'd be saving a significant amount of money.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#196

Post by xxxyy »

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

I think you are rationalizing. These interviews are really not that difficult. Try going through "Cracking the coding interview", a month of practice should be enough.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#197

Post by rplnt »

EnderMB wrote: post #180
downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

In a similar vein, I'd also like to know how many people manage to land jobs at the Google's and Facebook's of the world, and ultimately prove to be less-than-spectacular developers. I dropped out of a masters degree to join a startup as a .NET developer, but kept in touch with a few guys finishing there. One of them now works for Google. He was always great in the algorithm classes, and he knew his theory reasonably…

Google employs thousands of developers. They can't be that strict about who they hire as a 5-people startup. So they sure have lot of less-than-spectacular developers and they don't care. You need talented people as architects (or whatever), not your code monkeys.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#198

Post by shubb »

hackerboos wrote: post #195
robmcm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically it's the opposite in the UK, temp employees in the tech industry typically earn a lot more. In context to the interview I was talking about the perm rate was half of the contract rates they were paying people on the same team.

I concur. As a contractor in the UK, you are likely not paying National Insurance contributions, are able to write off mileage and other expenses, can reduce your tax liability with dividends. Plus you'd still get access to the NHS. I'm perm at the moment, but if I was a contractor I'd be saving a significant amount of money.

The main thing is that if you are earning decent money, you want to be a contractor because it is tax efficient.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#199

Post by madeofpalk »

robmcm wrote: post #186
skore wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the best interview process is hiring someone as a consultant, and then converting them after a year or so Unfortunately, this is also a "great" way to keep temp employees in constant limbo with the perm job as the carrot and stick. Usually, the temp job also leaves you with a lot less money (particularly because all the perks - insurance etc. - are reserved for proper employees) and, depending on the company, that'…

Ironically it's the opposite in the UK, temp employees in the tech industry typically earn a lot more. In context to the interview I was talking about the perm rate was half of the contract rates they were paying people on the same team.

In AU, once you factor in tax and benefits, contractors typically earn 50% more than full time employees. For a $100k full time role, the same might go to a contractor for $800+/day ($180k/year).

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#200

Post by TickleSteve »

skore wrote: post #176
robmcm wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on the other side when consulting at a 4 letter company in that location. Most of the time you know nothing about the interview until someone asks you to give them a technical screening an hour before. There is also no formal process or seeming involvement from HR, it's just a, "is this person any good". From my experience it often comes down to, in order of importance: - Are they willing to be perm - Do…

> the best interview process is hiring someone as a consultant, and then converting them after a year or so Unfortunately, this is also a "great" way to keep temp employees in constant limbo with the perm job as the carrot and stick. Usually, the temp job also leaves you with a lot less money (particularly because all the perks - insurance etc. - are reserved for proper employees) and, depending on the company, that'…

Contracting in the UK typically pays close to double the equivalent permie postion... its much more profitable and there is no way I would go permie again given the choice.

Honestly, quite surprised to hear its the other way around in the states. Here, contractors tend to laugh at the 'perks'... they're pretty much worthless.

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