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Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

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Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#191

Post by gfodor »

nilkn wrote: post #120

If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue. You could live exactly where you wanted to live. Want a 700 sq ft studio in Manhattan for $3k/month? Great. Want a 2000 sq ft ranch home next to a river out in the country with your own garden? Done. Want to just save as much as you can, with a cheap apartment in a cheap town outside a cheap city? You got it. Maybe yo…

> If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue.

If something like this seems obvious to you, and obviously a lot of smart people are acting in the opposite way, maybe you should re-consider your assumptions.

In reality, online communication tools currently are a poor proxy for in-person communication in many situations. Online tools do not pick up the array of non-verbal cues humans make when talking to one another, are not stereoscopic, do not allow freedom of motion, do not permit the collaborative use of 3d space, etc. They are a piss poor real time communication medium compared to an in-person conversation in a room with whiteboards. If you can never actually have a face to face conversation with someone on your team, there's an entire dimension to communication you are completely prevented from ever experiencing with that person.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#192

Post by iagooar »

s3nnyy wrote: post #121
paddyzab wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Zuerich maybe, I rented 3.5 room apartment in Adliswil for 1.970 CHF last week. Close to nature, and for me close to office since my company in in Binz. Moved away from crowded Berlin, no regrets.

Hey, you live sort of next door. Anyone interested in a HN meetup in Zurich? Mail me plz (e-mail-address in my profile).

HN meetup sounds great, count me in ;)

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#193

Post by jkestner »

clavalle wrote: post #163
adrianparsons wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that cocktails are extremely high quality in NY and generally the same price as they are elsewhere. That said, you can't get a $2 Shiner Bock here.

Please tell me where to get a $2 Shiner.

HEB.

More seriously, it takes a happy hour. Doc's takes half off all Texas beers.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#195

Post by jamiesonbecker »

eranation wrote: post #172

Weirdly Atlanta is not on the list, but this is why I'm probably never moving to SF. Yes, all the cool jobs are there, but for what price? GA tech is releasing very high quality engineers and the startup scene here is great (Mailchimp and many others), and you live in a frikin mansion 10 minutes commute to work (if you live in Alpharetta). Tons of technical meetups and both thriving startup scene and established ente…

I love GA too... but Texas has zero income tax (it's in the state Constitution).

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#197

Post by logicallee »

slantedview wrote: post #185
logicallee wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most likely explanation is that it doesn't work. Bootstrapped companies are very strapped for cash. They often use a distributed team early on. if a distributed team worked, at least some startups would continue on the model - after all it's in the company culture and muscle memory. And we would hear about them. (especially when they succeed really big.) We do, sometimes hear from them: https://news.ycombinator.c…

> What's the closest a distributed team has come to that? Tough comparison since so few companies embrace remote work, but see Automattic. > does it work for succeeding really big For really big companies there's always only so many people in any given city that you can hire. What's interesting is that most office based teams are effectively distributed in the collaborative work that they do with offices in other cit…

But my experience is that very many startups embrace remote work when they are small. (as in, thousands of them do.) They have to - they don't have a choice.

It doesn't seem to scale that well. (As in, they try but fail to scale it.) This is just my experience or impression.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#198

Post by cylinder »

Spooky23 wrote: post #98
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

The life hack to actually come out ahead is to avoid these places and find a good opportunity in a cheaper place. I don't know a lot about Austin, but I'm familiar with NYC, and I think that example works too. If you define the "cool" part of NYC as being in Manhattan, once you have a family it's irrelevant, because you can't live there... like 98% of everyone else, you end up in Jersey, the boroughs, or Long Island.…

Three hours, seriously? That is no longer within the metro area of NY, not even close. If you're talking about suburban commuting, houses upstate in Westchester are still $1 million with a fat 3% property tax bill. The trains suck and have a history of safety issues and you have to spend 2 hours a day on one. No thanks.

Don't try to settle in the NY metro w/ a family unless you are in finance, your quality of life will suck. If you aren't living in the city there's no point to being here, I would much rather be somewhere like Utah, California, Wash state.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#199

Post by s73v3r »

eranation wrote: post #172

Weirdly Atlanta is not on the list, but this is why I'm probably never moving to SF. Yes, all the cool jobs are there, but for what price? GA tech is releasing very high quality engineers and the startup scene here is great (Mailchimp and many others), and you live in a frikin mansion 10 minutes commute to work (if you live in Alpharetta). Tons of technical meetups and both thriving startup scene and established ente…

Where I am, I can reasonably bike commute to work, and I might just have to change clothes and towel down. Down there, I'd have to take a full on shower once I got to the office.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#200

Post by iagooar »

kokey wrote: post #49
sferik wrote: post #39

I’m curious how Europe’s tech hubs (specifically London, Paris, and Berlin) compare to U.S. cities. I suspect Berlin would compare quite favorably, despite the relatively high German tax rate. I moved there 18 months ago and currently pay €500 ($565) for a one-bedroom apartment in a nice part of town (Prenzlauer Berg). In San Francisco, I paid 5X that for a studio apartment in Hayes Valley.

I would say Berlin would look good, cost of living there is decent mainly due to the reasonable rental costs and good transport, and the demand and job mobility that has improved a lot there. Dublin also wouldn't rate too badly. London would probably look more like New York.

I think the problem with Berlin is that salaries are low, while prices are growing pretty quickly.

From my experience, this is what makes Berlin less attractive than people think (at the financial level):

- low engineer / developer salaries compared to other German cities. - rent prices are growing a LOT faster than salaries, my last appartment outside of the city center (the "Ring") cost almost 900€ a month, plus electricity. - public transportation is not that good (especially in winter) and quite expensive relative to the avg. salary (about 80€ if you live in the AB zones, 100€ for ABC). - high taxes, though this is a common problem in Germany. - food is cheap, but not cheaper than in other German cities with better avg. salaries. - if you own a car, prepare for extremely high insurance and taxes

Obviously, Berlin has its own perks, besides the known ones like night-life and openness of the people, it has a really huge demand for engineers and a vibrant startup scene.

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