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Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

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Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#191
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once told of a similar situation in a high school: AP classes were worth 6.0 in your GPA, while regular ones were worth 4.0. The valedictorian wound up being the person who realized this, took as many AP classes as possible, and as few regular classes as possible . It is massively stupid and unfair -- but there is a part of me that sees that as preparation for real life, a great deal of which is run in stupid a…

Why is it unfair? The AP courses are more challenging, and therefore get more weight. Isn't the valedictorian (theoretically) the smartest kid in the school?

Somewhat unrelated, but AP courses can often be easier for brighter students as they generally keep disruptive clowns out and offer more engaging material instead of boring busywork. The classes are thus more like college classes and less like babysitting sessions.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#192
I met some education majors in the 70s, when I was in college and grad school, (at McGill, coincidentally). It was clear, even then, that many of them were aiming to become grade school teachers because they could not do math beyond the grade school level. My encounters with my kids' teachers over the years have only reinforced that impression.

Two examples:

1) A 4th grade teacher who gave assignments in which presentation counted for 80%, and content for 20%.

2) A middle school math teacher who claimed the answer to the question "Flipping a coin, what are the odds of getting heads or tails?" was 50%. She really meant to be asking two questions, one about heads and one about tails. She completely missed the significance of the word "or" in questions about statistics.

This article does not surprise me at all.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#193
post #165
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated High School with a 6.022 GPA[1]! Texas is Awesome! 1. Normal max is 4.0, school gave extra credit for Advanced Placement and college concurrent courses.

I was once told of a similar situation in a high school: AP classes were worth 6.0 in your GPA, while regular ones were worth 4.0. The valedictorian wound up being the person who realized this, took as many AP classes as possible, and as few regular classes as possible . It is massively stupid and unfair -- but there is a part of me that sees that as preparation for real life, a great deal of which is run in stupid a…

The opposite happened when I went through high school. AP classes gave you a .75 bonus to your GPA, Honors classes gave a .5 bonus.

However, many of the AP classes were hard, to the point that the AP exam was laughable. The average grade in AP Biology was a C+, and more than 85% of the class got 5s on the exam. Same thing with calculus, physics, chemistry...

The valedictorian took AP Psychology, Statistics, Environmental Science, and US History, and then went down to the easiest Honors classes he could take. Just a .25 penalty on his GPA bonus... but he was getting 100s in the classes.

The kids who were looking for the hard classes to learn had much lower GPAs.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three [0] "America"s -- North, South, and United States of. Clarification is only required when context is inadequate to distinguish between them. Similarly, "star" can refer to a shape, a celestial body, or a talented/lead performer or athlete. You wouldn't interrupt a conversation about sports to say "stars aren't just guys like LeBron James; Aldebaran is also a star." That would be asinine and obnoxious.…

that's not context, that's because USA is the biggest power in the Americas, so powerful that it overshadows all the other regions/countries, and that's why some people living in the Americas feel belittled by that. I know you were not replying to my post directly, but to clarify my position: I'm european, I don't particularly care about the distinction, I just found that it was a very depressing message to put on a…

There is also the point that the United States of America was the first state to incorporate "America" in its name. It was an independent state when the rest of the Americas were at least nominally colonized by European powers. Much of the rest of the world got used to calling the USA "America".

For that matter, the official title of Mexico included "United States"--should I apologize when using "United States" or disambiguate in case somebody wants to mention the United Mexican States?

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#195
post #186
post #4

In Finland, graduate schools of Education admit students only from the top 10% of college graduates.[1] In the US, nearly half of all new teachers come from the bottom third of college graduates.[2] Evidently, Canada is more like the US than Finland. Depressing. -- [1] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands... [2] http://www.mckinseyonsociety.com/downloads/reports/Education...

It is more complex than that. Teaching generally pays way better in Canada compared to the average salary than in the US (especially when pension benefits are included). I have more experience with Ontario rather than Quebec. I would say in Ontario the teacher colleges are rather selective in who get to go, since the pay is so high, there's a lot of applicants. However math ability generally isn't part of the criteri…

Here are the stats: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-604-x/2014001/t/tbld.2.1-eng...

Notice how the lower and maximum salaries are not very different, but how it takes much longer in Québec to get a decent salary.

Ex: after 10 years in Québec, you're still at 58,643 $CAD, but in Ontario after 10 years: 75,336 $CAD.

My daughter is in primary school. I find it seriously disturbing how underpaid the teachers are.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#196
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once told of a similar situation in a high school: AP classes were worth 6.0 in your GPA, while regular ones were worth 4.0. The valedictorian wound up being the person who realized this, took as many AP classes as possible, and as few regular classes as possible . It is massively stupid and unfair -- but there is a part of me that sees that as preparation for real life, a great deal of which is run in stupid a…

Why is it unfair? The AP courses are more challenging, and therefore get more weight. Isn't the valedictorian (theoretically) the smartest kid in the school?

> and as few regular classes as possible

I enjoyed band so I took it and they didn't have an honors or AP version. So for me to maximize my GPA would mean that I would have to forgo band all four years of my high school existence in order to min-max for GPA.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#197
post #3

I teach high school, and a colleague of mine went to an education conference a couple weeks ago. She was sitting at a table with three elementary school teachers. They were talking about how to gauge student progress when the students had taken a 100-question test, and a 50-question test. None of the three teachers realized that you had to scale the test scores before making a comparison between the two tests. These…

I've got a slightly subtler but similar story. I had a math teacher in high school who would curve her test scores to the lowest top score from any one class. In other words, if she taught three identical 10th grade Trig classes in a semester, for each test she would take the three top scores (one from each class), and curve the test to the lowest of those three scores. It's a reasonable enough idea, I suppose, since different classes will have different questions and thus spend slightly different amounts of time on various parts of the material.

The trouble was that she would not give over 100% to the people who earned a higher score on the test than the curve. Her tests were not weighted, meaning that Test-A curved to 85 points was actually worth less than Test-B curved to 90 points. (Supposedly, the then-new district-wide computer grading system couldn't handle such arithmetic complexities.)

At one point, I received a score above the curve. Let's say I got 90 of 100 points, and the curve was 85. Later, when I saw my grades, I asked why I was only given an 85/85 on that test. She explained that she didn't give "extra credit," and she wouldn't budge. She would say things like "you got 100% of the points, so there's no reason to complain." I asked, then, if I could at least be given a 90/90, and she very confidently explained to me that 100% of the points on the test is the same regardless of the total number of points. She would not entertain the notion that a 90/90 is better than an 85/85, much less that a 10th grader might be able to correct an arithmetic mistake of hers. I even presented the example of changing a 100/100 assignment to 1,000,000/1,000,000 and noting the affect on the total grade, but she would have none of it.

As you can probably tell, I'm still bitter about that test.

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#198
post #46
post #36

As a McGill math grad, I must say that it was a running joke in the math department how the Education students didn't really need to know any math (some B. Ed. students shared classes with us during the first year or two). The B. Ed. students freely accepted this joke and were quite self-deprecating about their mathematical skills. Several of them even felt cheated for taking our "advanced" math classes which were, i…

This notion that you only need to know as much math as you're going to teach is ridiculous. The more your students struggle in math, the deeper your understanding of the subject needs to be. It takes a fair bit of skill and understanding to accurately diagnose and address misunderstandings. Knowing higher level math also lets you help younger students learn things in a way that sets them up for success later on. Stud…

This is an excellent couple of points. A math teacher doesn't just have to be able to know how to do the problem himself; he also has to be able to figure out where the student's misunderstanding is and how to correct it. Not only that, he needs to be able to do this for dozens of different students, all of whom have their own difficulties and misunderstandings.

I'm sure that there are people with only high school math understanding who can do this... but it just seems to me that the kind of personality traits that would make someone learn how to teach math like this would also make that person extremely passionate about learning it to the best of his ability and potential. I can't imagine a passionate history teacher who isn't also passionate about learning more history. Same thing with an English teacher who only reads John Grisham books (not that there's anything wrong with John Grisham).

Re: Many McGill Education Students Cannot Calculate an Average

#199
post #3

I teach high school, and a colleague of mine went to an education conference a couple weeks ago. She was sitting at a table with three elementary school teachers. They were talking about how to gauge student progress when the students had taken a 100-question test, and a 50-question test. None of the three teachers realized that you had to scale the test scores before making a comparison between the two tests. These…

I've got a slightly subtler but similar story. I had a math teacher in high school who would curve her test scores to the lowest top score from any one class. In other words, if she taught three identical 10th grade Trig classes in a semester, for each test she would take the three top scores (one from each class), and curve the test to the lowest of those three scores. It's a reasonable enough idea, I suppose, since…

People often underestimate the bitterness that these experiences create in smart people. It's not a petty thing, either - it's life changing in many situations.

We need smart people to take control of schools.

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