How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#191

Post by jmccree » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

ENGNR wrote: post #89

crmd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is to incentivize awesome service by having each customer decide how much compensation to give based on the server's performance. Those who delight customers make more money, while whose who are bad at customer service make little money and are incentivized to leave the industry and do something not customer-facing.

How hard is it to bring someone a menu and then bring them the food they ask for? I don't want to be delighted by the service, I'm there for the food and people I'm there with.

Have you ever worked at popular sit down restaurant during a dinner rush? It's a mad house... Not easy at all.

Good service is knowing the menu and wine/drink list. Being able to provide recommendations and advice on what to order. Trying to write down all the orders at this table while you see an empty water glass and someone is taking 5 minutes to decide which salad to order and you know there's food for another table getting cold in the window.

If you just want food and a place to sit, there's plenty of fast food/fast casual restaurants. If you go to a place with wait staff, it's because you are going to get waited on. A good wait person can be the difference in having a wonderful night or a horrible one.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#192

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:24 PM UTC

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

Forget the tip, why did you pay? I would have taken the price he originally wanted, cut it in half because of the screw up and gave him a choice of that or nothing.

>> "Why are we all required to give 20% tips even when the service sucks?"

You're not, you should have said no.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#193

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

bbarn wrote: post #120

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

I've had this tried on me before, in Chicago where we're supposed to have super strict taxi laws. The correct response is to dial 911, not 311, and say you've got a taxi attempting to rob you. Notice next time you walk across an intersection at a stop sign, who comes to a complete stop more.. the average driver, or a taxi cab. Taxi's fear police way more than the average driver.

>> "The correct response is to dial 911"

Is this not a bit of a waste of police time? Why can't you say "You tried screwing me, this is all I'm giving you. Got a problem? Ok, I'll call the police." Reading some of the comments in this thread it seems like people are seriously scared of taxi drivers. It's like any other business. If a restaurant tries to charge you for something you didn't order you don't pay them for it. You don't immediately call the police.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#194

Post by JoeAltmaier » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

jmccree wrote: post #191

ENGNR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to bring someone a menu and then bring them the food they ask for? I don't want to be delighted by the service, I'm there for the food and people I'm there with.

Have you ever worked at popular sit down restaurant during a dinner rush? It's a mad house... Not easy at all. Good service is knowing the menu and wine/drink list. Being able to provide recommendations and advice on what to order. Trying to write down all the orders at this table while you see an empty water glass and someone is taking 5 minutes to decide which salad to order and you know there's food for another ta…

Waitstaff are critical, and should be trained. Good waitstaff are a joy (prompt, pleasant, know the menu and can make suggestions, preemptively help avoid problems, revisit but don't keep badgering you).

However there's no night I don't cook that is 'horrible'. Its can be frustrating or amusing depending on my attitude. But if I'm sitting down and getting fed, then the rest is gravy.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#195

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #131

madeofpalk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

Why do you go to a restaurant rather than buying food from a grocery store and eating at home? The service aspect is what you pay for when going out to eat vs just buying food. Tipping is about connecting the buyers and sellers of services directly. How does sending the money through a manager/owner result in better or more cost effective services?

>> "The service aspect is what you pay for"

Nope. I pay so someone else cooks my food and I have a nice selection. In fact anytime I've eaten at a restaurant in the US I hated the service. They just won't leave you alone because they want to be your friend so you will tip them. I don't need you to check how I'm doing every 10 minutes.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#196

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #52

EC1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

>> "If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious."

The owner is being obnoxious. It's not up to me to pay his/her staff. I've worked and know people who've worked in restaurants in the UK. They get paid above minimum wage and still get tips (which aren't required, but people usually round up the bill). It's not hard.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#197

Post by DanBC » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

jasonwocky wrote: post #182

DanBC wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I loathe the intrusive cloying fake-friendliness of US waiters. I've had a few pretty poor[1] experiences despite not eating out that often in the US. I have eaten out in the UK considerably more often and had fewer poor experiences. maybe it's just a cultural thing?

How in the world do you know that the friendliness is fake?

Because the alternative - that people actually behave like that in their real life outside work - is not supported by my interactions with people outside the work environment.

Everyone has a level of friendliness. You step inside a restaurant and it gets ramped up dramatically. Some US places feel like the Disney store which has almost oppressive levels of forced-friendliness. (Where -employees- "cast members" are instructed to "spread the magic".)

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#198

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

thezilch wrote: post #84

acjohnson55 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should feel crappy if you don't tip. It's an "honor system" but the wages assume that people tip servers. I know, it's absurd, but that's the system. If you don't want to tip, please don't eat at places where waitstaff are paid a wage that presumes tips.

And what places are those? And how much?

> And what places are those?

What places don't assume that waitstaff are tipped? Fast food restaurants and in-grocery-store ready-to-eat food-service areas. And places that explicitly advertise prices with "service included" (though these are rare.)

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#199

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #196

maxerickson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

>> "If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious." The owner is being obnoxious. It's not up to me to pay his/her staff. I've worked and know people who've worked in restaurants in the UK. They get paid above minimum wage and still get tips (which aren't required, but people usually round up the bill). It's not hard.

Like several other replies, you are talking about something different than I am talking about. You're expressing an opinion about including tips as an expected component of the transaction. I'm talking about flaunting this widely known expectation.

Your opinion that the structure is obnoxious does not make it any less obnoxious to fail to tip (especially when, as I said, someone walks in planning not to tip).

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#200

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:51 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #199

k-mcgrady wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious." The owner is being obnoxious. It's not up to me to pay his/her staff. I've worked and know people who've worked in restaurants in the UK. They get paid above minimum wage and still get tips (which aren't required, but people usually round up the bill). It's not hard.

Like several other replies, you are talking about something different than I am talking about. You're expressing an opinion about including tips as an expected component of the transaction. I'm talking about flaunting this widely known expectation. Your opinion that the structure is obnoxious does not make it any less obnoxious to fail to tip (especially when, as I said, someone walks in planning not to tip).

The obnoxious part imo is more that people feel obligated to tip even when the service is bad. There are several comments in this thread about tipping 10-20% for BAD service. Putting that decision on that customer is unfair.