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IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

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Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#191

Post by meesterdude »

larssorenson wrote: post #177
meesterdude wrote: post #173

This is great news, and this new Microsoft that seems to be emerging (albeit late to the party) is a welcome change of direction. But lets not kid ourselves. It's still Microsoft. In my eyes, they have one of the worst track records and it will take a monumental change for my perspective to change to positive; I do not know what it would truly take to change it. They have played the evil corporation card for so long,…

The day I can run Visual Studio on Linux to develop a C# app / website I can deploy, run, and test in Linux is the day I forgive Microsoft for their recent issues. They definitely seem committed to turning over a new lease.

I was thinking something similar. If they were to materially invest in Linux (specifically help in it's sore spots) I would be able to forgive them. If they were just a positive force in software as a whole and made everything they touched better, and contributed their efforts to all sorts of existing community efforts (like linux; but other projects like browsers, databases, etc), they would win over the masses overnight. No question.

Microsoft, as a company that makes great software, is what I've always wanted them to be. But they've been so caught up on their own platforms and solutions that have run counter to that.

In a version of the future, it could happen. There could be a day where I, as a RoR developer, consider using MSSQL as my database, because it manages to be better than postgres or mysql, and has approachable OS/support licensing. Where I write code in their frameworks because they're better than Xcode and output code that runs on all platforms. Where I use IE because it renders the best and fastest and has the best inspector (and obviously, zero IE specific code required; and starts running on linux and OSX).

So it could happen. It's a sharp, sharp pull up from their current path, but there is a path to me advocating for them and what they build.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#193

Post by mark-r »

xorcist wrote: post #121
bunderbunder wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one easy fix for this, and several other problems with SO: Don't close duplicate questions. Just cross-reference them. Reasons: - Gets rid of the "This was closed because of trigger-happy moderators failing to distinguish between 'similar' and 'identical'" problem by making that situation impossible. - Improves answer discovery for users: If Google gets you to almost, but not quite, the right question, cross-…

Absolutely right. And this is also the way every other bug tracker on the planet works. (Yes, I think SO looks like a bug tracker used as a discussion forum. They're certainly very close, including hostile project owners, WONTFIX's, etc.)

Interesting observation. Recall that Joel Spolsky got his start with FogBugz, a bug tracker. Think that might have informed the design?

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#194

Post by mark-r »

shagie wrote: post #186
dionidium wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they can . But they won't . (For various reasons, but primarily because it won't get any attention. Nobody likes yelling into the void.) An alternative to shaming is that you could just accept this great new content that a volunteer is giving you.

There is a badge for exactly that - Necromancer ( http://stackoverflow.com/help/badges/17/necromancer ): Answered a question more than 60 days later with score of 5 or more. Whenever a question gets a new post it gets bumped up to the top of the activity again - the same amount of possible attention as when an hour old question gets a new answer too.

It depends on the question. If it previously didn't have an answer or only had one, it goes to the top. If it had 5 OK answers and you add a 6th really awesome one, the ranking doesn't change much - expect it to be totally ignored.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#195

Post by shagie »

mark-r wrote: post #194
shagie wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a badge for exactly that - Necromancer ( http://stackoverflow.com/help/badges/17/necromancer ): Answered a question more than 60 days later with score of 5 or more. Whenever a question gets a new post it gets bumped up to the top of the activity again - the same amount of possible attention as when an hour old question gets a new answer too.

It depends on the question. If it previously didn't have an answer or only had one, it goes to the top. If it had 5 OK answers and you add a 6th really awesome one, the ranking doesn't change much - expect it to be totally ignored.

That is not always the case. Consider http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/263542/ in which an answer was posted three years after the question was asked and two years since the last visible answer was posted ( http://programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/65281/timeline ) and is now the second highest answer in the question. That doesn't sound like 'totally ignored'.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#196

Post by wnevets »

oblio wrote: post #140
hoodoof wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google moved their support to SO for one of their products. I wasn't happy with the lack of response from their support team so I posted a message saying "What the heck do I have to do to get an answer from you guys on your product?". What do you think the response from SO was? People yelled "it's volunteers here choosing to answer questions on their own time! You aren't allowed to demand a response on SO, who do yo…

Google does not do support. This has been known for a long time. They don't hire support people, just developers. As such, SO is the best support you're ever going to get for Google products. (Thanks for the down votes - am I wrong? I doubt it ;) )

Its almost 2015 by the way. Alot has changed since google was completely awful at support.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#197

Post by mark-r »

MrPatan wrote: post #156
dionidium wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about discussion. It's a general stance positioning the perfect against the pretty good. Here's just one example: questions often get closed as duplicate after good answers start rolling in. Sometimes, the new answers are better than the old ones. The mods argue that the users should move their answers over to the old question. Or that they should improve the old answers. It's a lot of should, should, s…

This, and a thousand times this. If a question gets asked more, maybe having more indexed landing pages for it for search engines will make it easier to find. It seems to be a popular question after all! Why limit yourself to just one answer?

A closed question isn't automatically deleted, so the search engines can still find it. You'll just need to click another link to find the answers.

Theoretically it's better to have all the answers in one place instead of scattered about, so that you can compare and contrast them. In practice it's far from ideal. Often a new question will generate a fresh take on an answer, and the diversity would be welcome.

If there's a subtle difference between the "duplicate" question and the older one, you can edit it to highlight the difference. Unfortunately that's hard to do, and you're unlikely to get the reopen votes even if you do a good job.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#198

Post by alexggordon »

Avalaxy wrote: post #163
alexggordon wrote: post #152

Firstly, bravo. I really applaud Microsoft for realizing what it wanted to have in a Q&A site, and realizing Stack Exchange was that realizing. Then realizing that people are probably going to go to SE, instead of a Microsoft forum or product. That said, I think Microsoft is going to be in an adapt or die philosophy for the next few months, and I think this is one of those decisions. They know they need to foster a c…

> The only thing this piece is missing is a better hardware platform, so I'm going to be very interested in seeing what Microsoft can produce in the coming months. Why? Honestly, I think the Surface tablets and Nokia's Lumia devices are really high quality.

I really think Microsoft could do a much better job at fostering a productive App development ecosystem, which is the heart of a good mobile operating system. My ability to use a mobile device hinges on an expectation of UI and Hardware, but a gold standard of an incredible App environment.

Obviously, Apple has achieved this. Google Play has had some rough spots but is definitely a close second. Then there's the mortal wounds; the Amazon, Samsung and Microsoft App Stores,

That leaves Microsoft as the only company that designs Hardware/OS but still has a terrible App Store. In fact, scams and misleading apps were so bad[0] Microsoft actually had to address them[1].

Don't get me wrong though, if the App Store were better, I would love me some Lumia, but really, when Hardware and OS become a toss-up, really the next thing to look at is the App Store. Microsoft has some great momentum in the right direction now though and I would love for that to continue.

[0] http://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cessp... [1] http://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2014/08/27/how-were-ad...

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#199

Post by mark-r »

shagie wrote: post #195
mark-r wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the question. If it previously didn't have an answer or only had one, it goes to the top. If it had 5 OK answers and you add a 6th really awesome one, the ranking doesn't change much - expect it to be totally ignored.

That is not always the case. Consider http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/263542/ in which an answer was posted three years after the question was asked and two years since the last visible answer was posted ( http://programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/65281/timeline ) and is now the second highest answer in the question. That doesn't sound like 'totally ignored'.

I challenge you to find a similar question on StackOverflow. On some of the other, slower StackExchange sites I can see that it might be different.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#200

Post by bunderbunder »

robertwharvey wrote: post #179
bunderbunder wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one easy fix for this, and several other problems with SO: Don't close duplicate questions. Just cross-reference them. Reasons: - Gets rid of the "This was closed because of trigger-happy moderators failing to distinguish between 'similar' and 'identical'" problem by making that situation impossible. - Improves answer discovery for users: If Google gets you to almost, but not quite, the right question, cross-…

That's exactly what closing duplicates does: cross references it to the original. If someone wants to post new information, they can do it on the original.

It does cross-reference them. But read the rest of my bullet points. It isn't just about cross-referencing. It's about cross-referencing in a way that encourages a vital community that resonates with SE's gamified nature by keeping the site fun for all players.

Closing with a link to the original is cross-referencing in a way that does just the opposite: It decreases the vitality of the community by taking away opportunities for newcomers to take part in the gamification feature.

Let's frame the issue another way: What's Stack Overflow really for? Is it for people to ask questions and get answers? Or is it just a gamified Wikipedia?

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