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The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

nathanmarz.com

191–200 of 259 posts

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#191
post #10

Suffers from the same flaw as most critiques of open plan: it focuses on individual productivity while failing to understand how it contributes to team productivity. Cornell did a study of open plan awhile back that you should all read. I posted it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507404 The misunderstanding here is that it's just about serendipitously "overhearing" other conversations. 1. Open plan makes…

I think some of the best and most productive days I have had have been where I have been in the same cramped office as the rest of my team and we were all working on different chunks of the same problem - "Bob - are you using a list or a dictionary to pass the foobars in?" That's great for a single team all working on one thing - but I do not see the open plan office as a series of nicely appointed open plan offices…

> But living in the middle of hundreds of others just teaches us to ignore everyone.

This is an important point. For many of us who have worked in startups, "open office plan" really just means "team room". I enjoyed working in open office plans in smaller companies since it basically just meant 5-10 engineers sitting in the same space.

Last year I worked for a mid-size company of about ~200 employees, most of whom were crammed into a gigantic factory like space with endless arrays of fluorescent lights lining the ceiling.

The experience was among the most distracting I can remember. This was in no small part due to having to overhear loud conversations between people in different departments, such as marketing and sales, which require much more verbal communication than engineering. if I can help it I will never work in a similar environment again.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#192
post #49
post #10

Suffers from the same flaw as most critiques of open plan: it focuses on individual productivity while failing to understand how it contributes to team productivity. Cornell did a study of open plan awhile back that you should all read. I posted it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507404 The misunderstanding here is that it's just about serendipitously "overhearing" other conversations. 1. Open plan makes…

Let me share some perspectives on the 'other side'. 1) I don't want people to be able to see me all the time. It's extremely nerve-racking and I feel like an animal in a zoo. And from my experience, people usually don't care whether I'm deep in some code or doing something less intense - they come over anyway. And people don't care whether their question is important enough to interrupt! As soon as someone taps my sh…

Number 2 is totally accurate. I can't tell you the number of stupid questions I have fielded by our Junior devs, just because I'm in their site line.

I have the unique experience of having been both in offices and an open floor plan (most recently) for the same company. I can unequivocally state that I was more productive with an office. Junior devs had to measure the opportunity cost of coming to my office before asking me a Googleable question, I'm fairly certain one of them doesn't even use Google anymore.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#193
I hate open office plans. I want my privacy. if I need to hike up my skirt and and adjust something I want to be able to do it. if I need to call my gynecologist I want to be able to do it. If I want to surf the web I don't want anyone looking at my screen. I don't want people to be able to see when I floss my teeth. I would like an office with a door. Barring that, a cubicle with high walls and a door. Barring that, a cubicle with high walls that isn't missing the fourth wall. Barring that I want to get the hell out of there. Management that does an open office is doing it because they're cheap and don't trust employees to do work if they can't see you. All that other stuff is pure horseshit.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing all the managers get offices but the ICs get productivity-enhancing cubes.

Not mine. Everyone right up to Senior Director are embedded with the teams. The only exceptions that get an office and door is HR and Legal. When the CTO comes to our office, he also sits with us.

Ditto. Except our HR people don't have their own offices. We don't have lawyers in-house. If i draw a line from the window through my desk to the far wall, it passes through a developer on another team, me, the product guy for another team, the CTO, a co-founder/head of sales, and two salespeople.

I routinely gain great value from speaking to the developer and product guy on either side of me, both of whom are immensely expert. The salespeople are fortunately far enough away and quiet enough that they're not a distraction.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#195
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not just about personal productivity, it's also about enjoying your work. Spending a day in the noise, getting distracted, and simply unable to get your head down and finish the one task you're assigned to gets highly annoying and draining. Which has negative effects on that person and the team as a whole; poor mood (and attitude by extension), bad work, and a higher inclination to simply pack up and leave.…

In the Cornell study cited, it specifically discusses that open plans should be fit for purpose. "There's no silver bullet." I would love to be able to sit around my coworkers while I answer emails, catch up on the projects going on around me, bounce ideas off of people, etc. and then have a designated, quieter space to do "heads-down" work. Why can't you have both?

The trouble with this is that if you have a quiet space, then they have a quiet space, which means when you're sitting in the chatty space, most of your colleagues will be in quiet spaces, so you don't get the benefit the chatty space might offer.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#196

The issue isn't open floor plans or private offices. It's quality of design, and indirectly hipsterism. Good open floor plan designs are driven by acoustics and sitelines - management of audible and visual distractions. Yeah, staining the concrete slab and exposing the brick wall and using the metal pan and joists of the floor above as the ceiling and hauling in oak library tables as desks, just echos "lookie here, w…

The non-profit my wife works for recently renovated their headquarters, and the plan had all those elements. Until management got involved. Then the offices moved to the outer walls with the cubes in the middle. And the cubes got shorter. And nothing much was done about the HVAC.

Office politics often seems to be the root of all evil in just about every organization over 15 people.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#197
post #49
post #10

Suffers from the same flaw as most critiques of open plan: it focuses on individual productivity while failing to understand how it contributes to team productivity. Cornell did a study of open plan awhile back that you should all read. I posted it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507404 The misunderstanding here is that it's just about serendipitously "overhearing" other conversations. 1. Open plan makes…

Let me share some perspectives on the 'other side'. 1) I don't want people to be able to see me all the time. It's extremely nerve-racking and I feel like an animal in a zoo. And from my experience, people usually don't care whether I'm deep in some code or doing something less intense - they come over anyway. And people don't care whether their question is important enough to interrupt! As soon as someone taps my sh…

> I don't want people to be able to see me all the time. It's extremely nerve-[w]racking and I feel like an animal in a zoo.

I don't feel like this at all. In fact, that seems like an unhealthy reaction to me (so apologies for being judgmental). May i ask if you feel like this in other environments where there are other people around? Like, in a restaurant, or on public transport?

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#198
post #5

I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but in San Francisco a programmer probably costs you on average $100K a year in salary. With benefits the total cost is in the neighborhood of $120K. So a programmer is a $10K / month investment. For what it's worth: assuming white-collar employees, the multiplier is typically 50% to 100% depending on your location and how generous you are with perks, rather than 20%. If you only ha…

Can you (or anyone) go into more detail on what the number "$100K yearly salary" includes and doesn't include, in the US? Helpful for those of us not in the US. I.e. what makes up that extra 50%-100%?

Our own multiplier (Israel) is usually 30% extra over the stated salary, although the salary here is usually stated as a monthly, not yearly, number.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#199

Has anyone studied open plan offices and choice of programming language? Does an environment with a high chance of interruption lead to languages where you have to write a lot to do a small task, because you can write simple code between interruptions, and over time get enough code to do the task - and if you get interrupted well you only lose one minute's thinking. Contrast with a powerful language where you need ha…

Contrast with a powerful language where you need half an hour of thinking to build an intricate machine in your head, then you write it down in a little code, and need to hold its workings in mind while you test it.

That's not a powerful language, it's a bad language.

A powerful language isn't one that's overly concise to the point of crypticness, it's one that allows you to express yourself naturally. Meaning, there is a clean and strong conceptual mapping between the code and the problem domain. Meaning, it requires less mental effort to use.

Re: The inexplicable rise of open floor plans in tech companies

#200
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the most talented, expert employee in an office, then presumably you are being compensated proportionally. How much of that extra pay can you really earn by being the super-human solo coder, compared with how much can you earn by sharing your knowledge and raising the productivity of the entire team? If you are not being compensated proportionately, that's a separate issue entirely...

Half of the time the rest of the team doesn't seem to give a shit about learning anything new.

Or, arguably worse, they are only interested in new, shiny things, whether they work or not. Let's run scalaz streams in production. It compiles, so it must not have any performance problems!
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