Three Mozilla Board Members Resign over Choice of New CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Mozilla Board Members Resign over Choice of New CEO

#191

Post by wpietri » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 12:05 AM UTC

Pacabel wrote: post #171

wpietri wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is horseshit. When somebody works to take away your civil rights, a desire for tolerance does not require you to politely say, "Oh, gosh, you go on ahead and oppress us then." An open mind isn't an empty mind.

When people who claim to promote tolerance end up acting in an intolerant manner, it hurts their credibility. It really doesn't matter what their cause may be. Contradiction and hypocrisy generally don't make situations better.

Could you spell out your perceived contradiction? As far as I have seen, the perception of contradiction happens only with people who don't find them credible to begin with.

Personally, I don't see it as hypocrisy. In the case of those opposed to Prop 8, people aren't arguing for some generic tolerance, they're arguing for civil rights, including equality before the law. Most of the gay people I've talked to figure the prejudiced are going to keep on with their hating; they just don't want that bigotry enshrined in law.

Re: Three Mozilla Board Members Resign over Choice of New CEO

#192

Post by wpietri » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 12:09 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #190

wpietri wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we've so far had no negative reports. But a) there's a strong disincentive to report, b) subtle discrimination is hard to pin down, and c) that he has helped to strip gay people of their civil rights is enough to cause fear, and fear is all it takes to create problematic working conditions.

It seems to me that you're doing everything in your power to hang supreme importance on the six-year-old donation, dismissing people's positive reports and creating a fantasty situation that is pretty much wholly invented from 'what if'. In the intervening six years, there's been plenty of opportunity for people who once worked with him to voice their experiences. It seems to me that you didn't fully read the second…

I'm not saying it's worth nothing. I'm saying it's not proof that there never will be any problems. I'm saying that gay employees, partners, and donors can have reasonable concerns about Eich.

Personally, I'd be happy if Eich said, "Boy, I was a jerk to support Prop 8. I've always believed in equality, but I supported Prop 8 for [mistaken reasons]. I now understand that helping to strip some of my employees of their civil rights was harmful action, and apologize unreservedly."

But instead, he's dodged the question with some vigor. Which makes it reasonable to think he still thinks some of his employees don't deserve the same rights as he does. Whether or not that actually leads to bigoted actions within Mozilla as it has outside of it, reasonable people could fear that it would.

Re: Three Mozilla Board Members Resign over Choice of New CEO

#193

Post by rogerbinns » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 3:04 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #180

rogerbinns wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause is: "According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138 statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges." You can be against gay marriage because you don't like and don't want others to do it. But at the government level that also means denying gay couples those 1,138 benefits, rights and privileges. It means m…

There are plenty of gays who don't want and don't approve of gay marriage on theological grounds. One example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10729717/Brian-Sewe... You can be an atheist and still appreciate this argument as I do. As for the resignations, fine! Let them do what they want to do. Is it a big deal?

From what I can tell from the article, Britain has civil partnerships which have the same rights, benefits and privileges as marriage. That is a completely different debate from the US where there is are various similar things (eg civil unions) but only marriage has the full rights, benefits and privileges.

The correct fix in the US would be decoupling all those rights, benefits and privileges from marriage (only). However the chances of that happening at the moment are very low. So today the issue is all about marriage.

Re: Three Mozilla Board Members Resign over Choice of New CEO

#194

Post by zobzu » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:50 PM UTC

midnightaz wrote: post #34

zobzu wrote: post #15

Err, I don't think their leave is related to Eich being CEO. I'm not sure even knew about the "scandal" before they left.

Actually, the article implies that they resigned over picking an inside candidate instead of an outside one, not over the gay marriage issue. This would also explain why Mozilla seemed so unprepared for the criticism on Prop8: they'd just fought a huge battle over whether the CEO should be from inside or outside Mozilla, and that was probably all they focused on if it was so big that half the board resigned.

I think you may be right. :)