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Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

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Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#191

Post by mturmon »

easymovet wrote: post #30
mturmon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government does not respond to a passive arrangement where you "vote for ethics" every so often. You have to participate more actively. This involves work.

Lets keep the discussion positive. Understand I'm not a political science major or a fancy debater, I don't claim to poses more than average intellegence, I'm just asking a question, hoping someone with more knowledge on the matter has an answer. After working to provide for the family I don't have a lot of free time to commit to politics if that's what you mean by 'participate more actively', is that the only course…

Politicians (left and right) are pushed by strong forces. You can't just vote for someone who you believe is ethical and walk away, expecting that the power of that vote is sufficient to oppose those forces.

In other words, you were asking about a way to vote to fix this, and it's not fixable by a vote.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#192

Post by throwaway2048 »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #148
npizzolato wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until that bug causes a car to drive unexpectedly into a wall in the interim time until you've sent out a patch. The importance of being bug-free is much more driven by the potential damage caused by a bug than how quickly you can update the software.

Fear monger. What if what if what if... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying that possible new issues are no reason to persist the old issues

This is utter nonsense, "possible new issues" are every reason to carefully evaluate and weight new options.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#193

Post by poopsintub »

stcredzero wrote: post #161
assholesRppl2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you realize how much money you could make from networking opportunities that arise from driving around a Tesla? invest in your future

Tesla is the new Country Club membership? (They are also being granted as perks of employment.)

An old-man Jaguar costs a fraction of the price. Does a Model-S come with the country club membership? I'm in!

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#194

Post by sukuriant »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #148
npizzolato wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until that bug causes a car to drive unexpectedly into a wall in the interim time until you've sent out a patch. The importance of being bug-free is much more driven by the potential damage caused by a bug than how quickly you can update the software.

Fear monger. What if what if what if... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying that possible new issues are no reason to persist the old issues

No. It's a car, and has the power to kill people on software malfunction, making it a critical system. Critical systems are tend to go through a much greater and more robust form of testing.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#195

Post by bfe »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #171
Jgrubb wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

Let's just play economist and call it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking > In public choice theory, rent-seeking is spending wealth on political lobbying to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating wealth. The effects of rent-seeking are reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, national decline, and income inequality. Cu…

The term "rent-seeking" is accurate within the study of economics, but is bound not to be understood accurately by lots of non-economists. It resembles a competing, everyday meaning that is inocuous: buying a property or other asset and renting it out is a valuable service, whereas "rent-seeking" is destructive. The term is economists' jargon that euphemizes the problem. If I were the chief of the rent-seeking lobby, I would want everyone to keep calling it "rent-seeking."

The term "economic central planning" emphasizes that it's fundamentally opposite to free market economics, and that its practitioners and defenders are hypocrites.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#196

Post by sp332 »

jusben1369 wrote: post #29

Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman and makes a wonderful car. Like many persuasive people he arrives at an answer and backs into rationale but makes it appear the other way around. I'll give you just one example. The law of the land in NJ is that you can't sell in NJ unless through a dealership. That's the current law. Those laws need to change to al…

It was lost, when the auto dealer franchise laws were put into place along time ago.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#197

Post by stcredzero »

poopsintub wrote: post #193
stcredzero wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is the new Country Club membership? (They are also being granted as perks of employment.)

An old-man Jaguar costs a fraction of the price. Does a Model-S come with the country club membership? I'm in!

Does a Model-S come with the country club membership? I'm in!

It's more likely to come with a hackerspace membership.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#198

Post by SurfScore »

Our stores will transition to being galleries, where you can see the car and ask questions of our staff, but we will not be able to discuss price or complete a sale in the store. However, that can still be done at our Manhattan store just over the river in Chelsea or our King of Prussia store near Philadelphia.

"Cross an imaginary line a few miles down the road that the auto dealers can't access and everything will be A-OK!"

This is everything that is wrong with politics in a sentence.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#199

Post by larrys »

ghaff wrote: post #154
larrys wrote: post #84

"An even bigger conflict of interest with auto dealers is that they make most of their profit from service, but electric cars require much less service than gasoline cars. There are no oil, spark plug or fuel filter changes, no tune-ups and no smog checks needed for an electric car." Well then what about BMW with bumper to bumper service as only one example. That's a high end car that you don't pay for service for (i…

More to the point, the things he mentions are not very expensive service items--to say nothing of the fact that there's no particularly compelling reason to have them done at the dealer if you don't want to. (And talking about "tune-ups" is pretty close to an anachronism at this point.) Tesla, on the other hand, does have all its new electric car components which are all very impressive technically but about which re…

I buy luxury brands and have for a long time.

The dealer experience is pretty darn good.

I took delivery on a new Porsche. The transmission had a problem. So they flew a new one in from Germany by Fedex at a cost of perhaps $8,000 (after all it's pretty heavy) in air freight I was told. Loaner cars? Last time they gave me a brand new Cayman (I own a 911) with 300 miles on it. Other times Cayene Hybrids with 3k miles.

It's not without it's bumps of course (routine service maintenance was $450 to keep up the warranty Mercedes does something similar). But if you can't afford that type of thing you don't buy this type of car (at least not a new one).

The standards are higher for several reasons. One is that people with money don't take shit generally and are very demanding. So they keep the people working there in line and don't take bs answers and complain so much.

I brought the car in to fix a problem and when I was driving down 95 the repair broke. I called them they towed the car back and got the repair mechanic back from home (he had left for the day) and fixed it while I waited. I felt bad for him he was literally fearing for losing his job.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#200

Post by Fomite »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #148
npizzolato wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until that bug causes a car to drive unexpectedly into a wall in the interim time until you've sent out a patch. The importance of being bug-free is much more driven by the potential damage caused by a bug than how quickly you can update the software.

Fear monger. What if what if what if... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying that possible new issues are no reason to persist the old issues

No, but "Cars do uncomfortable things at high velocity" is not exactly an edge case.
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