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What I Didn't Say

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I Didn't Say

#191

Post by calibraxis »

hooande wrote: post #158
ericabiz wrote: post #32

As a female founder, I think this is a well-thought-out, articulate response, and I appreciate pg stepping up to say something about women in tech. In a similar vein, I'd love to see YC take on one or both of the following: 1) Do at least one application cycle completely blind. How could you accomplish this? Much like in the concert auditions where this was first tried, put people behind a curtain--and then use techn…

A reputation can be a blessing or a curse. YCombinator has a great reputation as the best startup incubator and it's founders have sterling reputations as being the people you absolutely need to talk to if you're considering a tech startup. It takes a lifetime to become known as superlative, the proverbial gold standard. It's as true on the mean streets as it is in the halls of power: You are what people think you ar…

Does your company respond to customers like this: start by pointing out your "sterling reputations" and end by claiming "I understand"?

The person you responded to offered two doable action points. A litmus test is if YC moves on at least one of them. YC does not have the excuse that it doesn't have the technical know-how. And it would be a laughingstock if they didn't have the hacker spirit to figure out how to implement them.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#192

Post by jsmthrowaway »

aaronem wrote: post #181
semiel wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that PG is a human living in America, psychological studies suggest that is statistically very likely.

[citation needed]

I can't wait for "[citation needed]" comments with zero content to fall out of favor, along with other low-effort "you're wrong but I don't have the time to prove you wrong" shots. There are many things I don't like about Wikipedia, some fairly, some unfairly, but that contribution to our discourse is one reason in my mind to burn it all down.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#193

Post by loteck »

pdonis wrote: post #52
joshdick wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, publishing remarks made to a reporter as part of background on a story is unethical.

Publishing remarks made as background when you make it clear that they were made as background and that they weren't part of an actual interview is not unethical--though it is still unfair to the person being quoted, IMO, for reasons which are well explained by pg in his article. Publishing remarks made as part of background for a completely different topic, in such a way as to make it seem as though they were made d…

Publishing remarks made as background when you make it clear that they were made as background and that they weren't part of an actual interview is not unethical

So, you're just wrong about this. Filed under: Ethics - Human Sources: "'On background' is a kind of limited license to print what the source gives you without using the source's name."

http://journalism.nyu.edu/publishing/ethics-handbook/human-s...

And, knowing many journalists, none of them would ever print something given to them on background with the source's name attached. It is unethical.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#194

Post by MartinCron »

crassus wrote: post #139
throwaway135 wrote: post #80

Why is adding more women to the tech industry automatically assumed a laudable goal to throw resources behind? I'm Middle-Eastern (probably a smaller minority in the North-American tech scene compared to women), and while I (like most people) would certainly like to be surrounded by more of my brethren, it's not something I'd be comfortable spending resources on because the return on investment is so nebulous; divers…

I wonder if part of it is that hackers look down on female-dominated lines of work. We imagine that being like us is the best thing in the world. It is a decent line of work, mind you, but it has its downsides and not everybody is cut out for it.

Hackers tend to look down on some male-dominated lines of work, too. It's not like you see a surplus of respect for construction workers or prison guards, for example.

I think it's more of a class thing than a sex thing.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#195

Post by Perihelion »

Dewie wrote: post #162
Perihelion wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exactly the sort of person I'm talking about. People like you are afraid to be comfortable in a work environment for fear that they'll be fired for saying or doing the wrong thing. Provided you aren't a sexist/rapist, I see no reason why you need to be walking on eggshells all the time at a place where you spend a large percentage of your day. It makes me sad that my presence would make you uncomfortable when…

> While you and you alone have the power to change your behavior (and it would be awesome if you gave women the benefit of the doubt because we're not all this way...promise), I really can't place 100% of the blame on you either. Yet this seems to imply that you place most of the blame on him... though it seems that you are both (potential) victims here.

I apologize if it came off this way. I actually allocate blame 50% to him and 50% to the people that do this sort of thing. This is a circular problem to me. Some people seem quick to be angry about things and they lash out at people. Then the people being lashed are like "These people are CRAZY. I'd better steer clear of them." The ones lashing out may have been on the receiving end of something *ist and read into things that people say/do. This issue seems to be feeding itself. What it comes down to is this: Everyone needs to stop judging everyone based on the actions of a few people who make great waves. The tech industry isn't the only place this could be beneficial, either.

WRT calling him out on his behavior, all I was trying to say is that I disagree and wish he would consider changing his mentality going forward. I'm not mad at him for it, I'm sad that the actions of a few have caused him to think this. At the same time I was hoping to imply that I won't twist his arm because I see where he's coming from. No malice intended!

Re: What I Didn't Say

#196

Post by [deleted] »

runevault wrote: post #135
McKittrick wrote: post #112

Getting misquoted in an interview happens to almost everyone who has given an interview ever. It is a product of the interviewer trying to put an editorial spin on a story (i.e make it interesting) and human error (based on reporter time constraints). Being misquoted is the tax for using the interviewer's platform for marketing. For most people, the benefit of the publicity outweighs the tax. So you give the intervie…

The difference here is he was not supposed to be interviewed, he was offering background for an entirely different piece, and they turned the discussion into an "interview" after the fact when they presented pieces of said material claiming it to be an interview.

[deleted]

Re: What I Didn't Say

#197

Post by aaronem »

calibraxis wrote: post #143
yawn wrote: post #26

Jakob Kaplan Moss owes PG a public apology for his behavior. The witch hunt tweets that were coming out of him without getting the facts straight are downright disheartening.

So far seems he hasn't; he's explained why, and all the more power to him. BTW, I'm disappointed that only "witch hunt" (terrorism against women) is used in this particular thread so far. Where's "lynch mob" and "McCarthyism", to round out the irony trifecta? (Hilariously sick when men liken themselves to women, whites to blacks, and capitalists to communists.)

I've found @jacobian's statement on the matter [1] eminently reasonable and even-handed.

As for the trifecta, I can't help you out on "lynch mob", I'm afraid, but how about this for McCarthyism?

"The [tech industry] is infested with [sexists]. I have here in my hand [2] a list of [102] -- a list of [user]names that were made known to the [Github administrators] as being members of the [sexist majority] and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the [tech industry]." [3]

[1] https://twitter.com/jacobian/status/417776560603549696

[2] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:a3j7b1R...

(This link points to Google's cache of @ashedryden's tweet, because the tweet as originally hosted on Twitter has been deleted since I saw it last. I hope you'll agree that Google's cache is an acceptably authoritative source for what used to be hosted at that Twitter URL. The replies are more interesting than the original tweet, anyway.)

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#Wheeling_speech

Re: What I Didn't Say

#198

Post by ars_technician »

calibraxis wrote: post #191
hooande wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reputation can be a blessing or a curse. YCombinator has a great reputation as the best startup incubator and it's founders have sterling reputations as being the people you absolutely need to talk to if you're considering a tech startup. It takes a lifetime to become known as superlative, the proverbial gold standard. It's as true on the mean streets as it is in the halls of power: You are what people think you ar…

Does your company respond to customers like this: start by pointing out your "sterling reputations" and end by claiming "I understand"? The person you responded to offered two doable action points. A litmus test is if YC moves on at least one of them. YC does not have the excuse that it doesn't have the technical know-how. And it would be a laughingstock if they didn't have the hacker spirit to figure out how to impl…

They would be a laughingstock if they did implement a voice adjuster. It makes it appear that rampant sexism is such a problem that they have to implement protection against it.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#199

Post by MartinCron »

lauradhamilton wrote: post #39

Thanks for the clarification. It is unfortunate that your statements were taken out of context and spun. I typically look for the original source, and am relatively skeptical of poorly edited viral stories such as this one. With that said, I do think that the moderation / upvoting / flagging of Hacker News is overwhelmingly male. I sometimes see sexist comments here, and there doesn't seem to be a good system for wom…

I sometimes see sexist comments here

Me too. And I will downvote, comment, or both. The system isn't perfect, but there are people who are trying.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#200

Post by jacalata »

theorique wrote: post #159
kremlin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is undeniably the case that men are more...cautious about what they say and how they behave around women, particularly in the workplace. As a man, I'd have to say that such caution has precedent - you may be an exception, but (this incident being a great example) in my experience women are much more easily offended. And I could see how that could make things less enjoyable for women who aren't so up tight; women w…

Work on Wall Street. It's one of the last bastions of political incorrectness that you're likely to find in the USA. (I mean that in a complimentary way - people tend to take your words with a grain of salt, don't get butthurt unnecessarily, and if they are offended, they tell you off and then you put it behind you.)

Funny, that's also the industry where my sister had to literally campaign to get the office porn collection off the walls when she became the first female trader at her company in 2008. I think if this 'over-sensitivity' that men in tech say they are suffering from actually exists in a large percentage of developers, then it's a healthy backlash from such behaviour as Wall St, and eventually we'll find an equilibrium.
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