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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

nytimes.com

191–200 of 242 posts

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#191
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there's ways to pull the paper out without disturbing the envelope if they really wanted to go that far. As it stands what you're suggesting is at least already illegal, FWIW.

> As it stands what you're suggesting is at least already illegal, FWIW. Unless a secret presidential order established a secret law (declared legal by a secret court) that made it legal (but illegal to disclose to the public), that is.

Ugh. When the news media refers to "secret courts" and "secret laws" they're taking some liberties with the definitions of "court" and "law".

The first thing to understand is that one of the basic concepts in our separation of powers system is that the executive has discretion in how it enforces the law. Take something basic like the Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. 1). The most important piece is just one paragraph: "Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal..."

The courts establish the precise contours of what is a "restraint of trade" or what is a "combination" under the law. This creates a set of boundaries for the executive. The executive is empowered to enforce the law, but has discretion within those boundaries. If it thinks some class of things is or is not a violation of the law, it is entitled to prosecute cases accordingly until the courts decide the point one way or another or Congress clarifies the law.

Presidential orders cannot create law, but they can guide the rest of the executive branch's enforcement of the law, within those boundaries of discretion. The President might issue a directive telling the DOJ: "we don't think that such and such agreement is a 'combination' under the antitrust laws, so don't prosecute such cases." Usually these interpretations are public (and are published in the form of regulations). Sometimes these interpretations are secret, in which case the media calls it a "secret law." But the key thing is that the directive only guides executive action that was lawful anyway.

Now, the FISA court has been called a "secret court" but it again serves to guide executive discretion, and is not a court of general jurisdiction. Its opinions are binding on no other court other than itself, and its jurisdiction is extremely limited. The basic principle behind FISA is that the executive can do a lot of things as a part of its foreign intelligence function Constitutionally that we don't necessarily want it to do. In particular, it can conduct surveillance of foreign agents entirely without warrants because foreign agents don't have 4th amendment rights. The purpose of the FISA court is to constrain the executive's discretion in this regard, by requiring it to get a FISA warrant for all foreign surveillance, even though such surveillance would not require a warrant under the 4th amendment.

To circle back to mpyne's point: neither "secret courts" nor "secret law" can override public courts and public law. Rather, they are internal to the executive. They guide the executive's discretionary powers within the boundaries established by public law. If they hadn't written it down, they'd still be entitled to do it, and nobody would complain about any "secret laws" or "presidential directives." The things mpyne mentioned are illegal according to public law, and thus not within the executive's power to do regardless of any secret directives or secret court opinions.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#192
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Yes, the plate number on your vehicle is publicly available data. But I don't see how that is very usefully. I'm not sure there is any way for a random person to do anything with a plate number. It would require the person to have some sort of connection to the DMV or other agency that has access to your name and address based on the plate number. And those people are still not going to have access to your medical re…

I doubt an anti-abortion protestor who is collecting license plate numbers is doing it to get a hold of medical records. They have already made their "judgement".

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#193

If its an image it suggests that it might be fun to print QR codes on your mail which refer to specific URLs. If the URL is accessed you get a hit on who looked it up. Sort of like putting a 1x1 gif in an email which is loaded from your web site as cheap analytics (pro tip, don't do this if you work at Google, the security guys don't like it :-). Always interesting if you can get the other side to reveal information…

That assumes that what ever is getting the images is also going to process them as QR codes and follow any URL encoded in them. Based on what the system is described as doing, I don't see why it would have any concern over a QR code since QR codes are not an accepted form of addressing a envelope.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anger and hatred after 9/11 is what led us down this spiral 9/11 merely silenced the critics, allowing the power elite to bum rush the Constitution, aka the Shock Doctrine. Panopticon has always been the plan. There's always a plan, waiting for the opportunity.

It inspired people who knew better to compromise on their beliefs about freedom and torture and rule of law, and we've been paying for it ever since.

And it scared those who didn't know better into not asking themselves the tough questions required to become one who does know better.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more the fact that he is now considered a free man, but still being spied on, which irks us all.

Is it "spying" for the government to remember information that he voluntary told to the government?

Did you even read the article? The government is actively sifting through his mail, more than 10 years after he was considered to be a threat... and a hippy environmentalist threat at that...

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great info, thanks. How reliable is the mail delivery? Do you know how much mail is lost? One percent, more, less? (I believe one kind of failure is called UAA - undeliverable as addressed.) I'd love to learn more, but don't know where to start. Some of us election integrity activists are deeply concerned with the transition to vote by mail (all postal ballots, no more poll sites). One practical complaint is our assu…

In general, I think mail delivery is very reliable. But given the volume, there will be outliers. Even if we assumed 99.9999% reliability (a hypothetical number), given that they sort 300MM pieces per day, 300 pieces per day will be affected. If you have the money, you should try an experiment: mail a large number of ballot-like pieces from different mailboxes all over the county (say, 10,000 letters) and see how man…

The Royal Mail in the UK quotes ~99.74% reliability (for delivery, not on-time delivery), FWIW.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#197
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this century, we certainly can: do not have license plates at all, use radio beacons instead, which send encrypted copies of the plate. The police would be allowed to request decryption from the DMV (e.g., "running the plates"), and a few other authorized people, but the general public could not. The secret keys would be the weak point, and would have to be held only in a limited number of DMV data centers (which…

Sure, but then how do you tell the police that you just saw a black SUV with Massachusetts plates ending is 907 blow through a red light and almost run down an old lady with a cane at 7th and main? How would they ever find the driver or owner? While there are many ways to abuse the fact that license plates are publicly-visible (the aforementioned abortion protester being one example), there are still very legitimate…

Maybe I am naive but it seems like there would be a pretty small sub-set of the population that could actually do anything with someone's plate number that would be an abuse of the system. There isn't some publicly available API into the DMV records is there?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#198
post #5

Goddamnit this is NOT OK. This is the dark side of the technological improvements to "productivity": we have enabled a level of productivity that allows the few to track the many. It's time we technologists all sat down and though about ways to turn the tide - they are using technology to track us, how can we use technology to thwart them? My best answer is: data flak. We should all start building system that include…

A mail proxy is what is needed (I have no idea if these exist today). Put your letter inside an envelope to a mailing proxy. Mailing proxy opens your letter, and sends your recipient a letter from them. There are more opportunities for misdirection - the mailing proxy service can internally shuffle letters around and add mailing delays to discourage external analysis. Although, even with all that, I'm unsure of the e…

Why stop at just a single-hop proxy? Just go full out onion routing. Here's a paper for an anonymous physical delivery system, named APOD, based on that model:

https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/papers/APOD_PETS09.pdf

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#199
post #5

Goddamnit this is NOT OK. This is the dark side of the technological improvements to "productivity": we have enabled a level of productivity that allows the few to track the many. It's time we technologists all sat down and though about ways to turn the tide - they are using technology to track us, how can we use technology to thwart them? My best answer is: data flak. We should all start building system that include…

There's an addon called TrackMeNot that does this, though I'm not sure it's very effective.

http://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/

This also reminds me of the time the FCIC asked Goldman Sachs for some data and they proceeded to send them 5 TB of nearly useless documents.

Dumping people with large amounts of data seems like the modern equivalent of paying your parking ticket with pennies.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#200
post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

"7 years ago they were saving 100% of the information... I can't even imagine how much higher that percentage must be by now"
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