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"Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

bugzilla.mozilla.org

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Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#191

Post by btgeekboy »

socillion wrote: post #111
kondro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developers shouldn't have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% [citation needed] of people who browse without JS .

If it doesn't work without JS, is it going to work in a screen reader? Should developers have to implement extra functionality for the Nobody is forcing developers to give a damn about accessibility, but it's a bit sad that so many have thrown graceful degradation out the window.

The way I understand it (and I don't claim to be an expert): yes, it will work. Modern screen readers let the browser handle the JS and related parts, and it reads the displayed text.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#192

Post by justincormack »

socillion wrote: post #111
kondro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developers shouldn't have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% [citation needed] of people who browse without JS .

If it doesn't work without JS, is it going to work in a screen reader? Should developers have to implement extra functionality for the Nobody is forcing developers to give a damn about accessibility, but it's a bit sad that so many have thrown graceful degradation out the window.

Screen readers can generally cope with much use if JavaScript now.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#193

Post by rmc »

grannyg00se wrote: post #94
x0x0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing Alex posted is firefox really gives you no indication of why the internet looks weird and is breaking left and right. So you can disable js or images or ssl and unless you're lucky enough to know a programmer or IT person really have no guide to undoing whatever happened.

If "the internet" is suddenly breaking left and right after you've disabled certain features wouldn't you try re-enabling the features?

You're presuming people know what they're doing. If someone clicks a bunch of boxes and things break, they might not know what boxes they checked/unchecked, they might not know how to get back to that window again (which menu item was it again? ).

If you think users aren't that stupid, you're wrong, they are that stupid. If you think people should not use the Internet if they don't understand that much, then you're suggesting kicking a large chunk of the population off the Internet. If you work in IT, kicking a lot of people off the Internet is a surefire way to reduce your industry's size.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#194

Post by Dylan16807 »

kondro wrote: post #100
darkarmani wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that would be easy to fix using only HTML, if the refresh used an anchor tag to your comment.

But would always require a complete page reload. Not that most web apps wouldn't implement it that way to begin with anyway, but this would be the only choice with a HTML-only site.

But go back to HN for a moment, there's not really a good way to insert new threaded comments in realtime, you pretty much need a refresh. So the no-js method is about perfect.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#195

Post by rmc »

mullingitover wrote: post #83
Osmose wrote: post #26

Here's the bug where the option was removed: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851702 Limi's blog post "Checkboxes that kill your product" is cited in the bug as a good explanation of the motivation behind this: http://limi.net/checkboxes-that-kill/ The option has been added to the DevTools for developers who find it useful: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=864249 And of course addons like NoSc…

Sure, blame the 'checkboxes' and not your own failure to handle disabled js gracefully. I'd be mad about this, except I haven't used firefox in years. One less reason to go back I guess.

Lots of the Web does not do graceful degradation to fully functional sites without JS. That ship has sailed, that battle has been lost. JavaScript is a required, not optional, part of a lot of the Web.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#196

Post by Amadou »

tracker1 wrote: post #157
Amadou wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a terribly user-unfriendly design decision because it does not distinguish between failure modes. Maybe your site is broken because I am running noscript or maybe it broken because it is mis-configured or recently hacked or my ISP's proxy is black-holing things or a dozen other things that could go wrong. The point is that it is relatively trivial for the developer to add automated checks for per-requisites a…

[body] [noscript]This site requires cookies and javascript to function properly[/noscript] ... [/body] Problem solved.

Not for cookies it ain't.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#197

Post by bad_user »

hnha wrote: post #189
bad_user wrote: post #163

Firefox is the most customizable browser available. It's about time they cleaned-up their Preferences panel and leave that stuff for extensions to tackle. I personally never disabled Javascript from the Preferences panel because I never find anything in that panel. To disable Javascript, I use the Web Developer toolbar, which is much more convenient, although not convenient enough - since one might want to enable/dis…

Have you tried opera (not the latest Chrome-bastard but earlier versions)? I'd challenge your statement, opera seems much more customizable to me.

When I said "customizable" I didn't mean in terms of settings, but it terms of what you can do with Extensions/Add-ons.

Name another browser where the Firebug-like functionality is an extension and not something built-in.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#198

Post by __david__ »

bad_user wrote: post #163

Firefox is the most customizable browser available. It's about time they cleaned-up their Preferences panel and leave that stuff for extensions to tackle. I personally never disabled Javascript from the Preferences panel because I never find anything in that panel. To disable Javascript, I use the Web Developer toolbar, which is much more convenient, although not convenient enough - since one might want to enable/dis…

I agree--the global Javascript disable is pointless in this day and age.

As for enabling it by domain, check out the "noscript" extension. I've been running it for a couple years and it (a) lets you see from which domains a page is loading Javascript files and (b) lets you enable/disable Javascript from particular domains. I've never enabled facebook.com, for instance, since I don't have an account there and I don't like the idea that every page out there with a "like" button is tracking me.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#199

Post by zimpenfish »

nightski wrote: post #131
ubernostrum wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Advanced settings" dialogs tend to indicate poorly-thought-out interface design. Rather than demonstrating careful attention to what features are useful and important enough to ship, they become dumping grounds for "something someone asked for once".

So well thought out interface design is ignoring subsets of users and unifying everyone to one common set of behavior. Imagine if Excel employed this philosophy. It wouldn't be useful to anyone.

That depends how large the subset is. If it's 2% or lower, then yes. Hell, I might even go as high as 10% depending on what the particular bit of behaviour is.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#200

Post by skriticos2 »

just2n wrote: post #169
gkoberger wrote: post #22

Here's a very relevant blog post by Alex Limi of Mozilla: http://limi.net/checkboxes-that-kill/ Most sites these days that aren’t just displaying content will fail in interesting & mysterious ways if you don’t have JavaScript enabled. For the general population, Firefox will appear broken. And yes, I know that some people have reasons (privacy, web development) to turn off JavaScript. There are many add-ons that can…

I have to say that this article is actually quite terrible, as is the opinion that any option that might ever be confusing to a user is an option that shouldn't ship with the product. The thesis of the article is: "Well, we have met the enemy, and he is us.* In the currently shipping version, Firefox ships with many options that will render the browser unusable to most people, right in the main settings ui." The solu…

Why not just put it in the about:config page for FF? Casual users are unlikely to accidentially access this page as there is no GUI navigation to it.

Though most casual users I know avoid GUI configuration all the same, so I don't really see the issue here.

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