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German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

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Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#191

Post by Dylan16807 »

manarth wrote: post #190
Dylan16807 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is she getting paid an actual wage, or is she getting a room and a trivial amount of spending money? The first is a job, the second shouldn't be considered one.

Many countries consider whether something is a job based on what it should be paid (accounting for typical pay, minimum wage, etc), rather than what someone is paid. This is to prevent abuses such as shipping in workers from a poorer country, giving them food, board and $10 a week for them to stack shelves, and claiming "It's not a job", so the not-workers don't require a working visa. Similar judgements are also oft…

I'm not sure it's actually a bad thing to let people work for free if there's a reason they honestly want to. As long as they're not trapped in some manner.

Plus it's tricky when it comes to something like 'watching children part of the day'. It wouldn't be considered labor if it was a family member doing it, whereas stacking shelves certainly would be. If I'm letting someone live in my house, why should it matter if they're family when it comes to having them do chores?

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#192

Post by znowi »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #90

Just a note of caution, a friend of mine wanted to send their daughter over to visit the US during the summer before she headed off to college. We were of course happy to let her stay at our place which is a good west coast starting point for things California. Somewhere in correspondence where she was trying to ask nicely if she could stay at our place she said "I could watch the kids or something" and later in that…

And here goes the popular "I did nothing wrong, I have nothing to hide" sentiment :)

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#193

Post by darklajid »

llamataboot wrote: post #111
loup-vaillant wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recall any specific story where they ask you to unlock it?

Israel regularly makes people log into email and social media accounts. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/israel-airport-emai...

Oh, don't get me started..

I still cringe about multiple 'turn on the computer' scenes in Tel Aviv, where 'turn it on' obviously (..) wasn't satisfied by pressing the button, nor by logging in: I had to 'open a file, just any file' (the clueless guys would be impatient by now, being annoyed by my failure to understand this useless requirement). Usually I chose a default windows wallpaper -> Done.

Braindead, waste of time.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#194

Post by darklajid »

rl3 wrote: post #53
nostromo wrote: post #25

It's unclear to me who provided the print-out of Jana's private messages. Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security. I hired a Canadian once under a TN NAFTA "visa" and he had to bring some correspondence from me to the border. We had to be very careful to word things correctly and not to use specific words that could prevent him from coming to the US. It seems that th…

Data acquisition methods in order of highest probability: 1. ^ This. 2. Was actually public information; story details lost in transmission or translation. 3. Her phone was still logged into Facebook. 4. They gained access to Facebook via links in e-mail. [...] 10. Normal federal law enforcement powers. 11. Special federal law enforcement powers, e.g. Patriot Act. [...] 100. NSA data that requires TS/SAP + full-scope…

I'm no friend of FB or the US.

But the idea that somehow all FB messages are thoroughly searched seems .. unlikely.

The German article says the girl 'found a nice family' and had 'a regular contact with her guest dad'. How unlikely is it, that the guest dad - or someone with access to his account .. - notified the border control?

I refuse to believe in the Orwellian surveillance theory here and put my money on a jealous spouse.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#195

Post by Confusion »

ubernostrum wrote: post #159
AJ007 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never has there been any dispute that the NSA can freely read what non Americans are doing without any sort of legal authorization. One would assume that access is given to Customs & Dept of Homeland Security too. Some of the NSA leakers think this is wrong, but I have not heard any elected government official state otherwise. Too some extent, this NSA story should be of equal or greater disturbance to non-Americans.…

One would assume that access is given to Customs & Dept of Homeland Security too. Some of the NSA leakers think this is wrong, but I have not heard any elected government official state otherwise. Someone leaks information about PRISM, and the primary response is TREASON! TREASON! ARREST THE TRAITOR AND DEAL WITH HIM! Given that, do you really expect that A) random border agents are in on it, and B) feel free to just…

Snowden had proof and plenty of it. A random border agent that finds some documents on his desk in the morning, to be used that day, does not have much proof.

Secondly, a lot of people knew, but kept quiet. I see no reason to expect a random border agent from talking, given it took years and someone like Snowden to finally talk.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#196

Post by Confusion »

acchow wrote: post #182
AJ007 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never has there been any dispute that the NSA can freely read what non Americans are doing without any sort of legal authorization. One would assume that access is given to Customs & Dept of Homeland Security too. Some of the NSA leakers think this is wrong, but I have not heard any elected government official state otherwise. Too some extent, this NSA story should be of equal or greater disturbance to non-Americans.…

How do you infer someone's citizenship from their FB profile?

They don't need to infer citizenship from an FB profile. They already know who the FB profile belongs to and what the nationality of that person is.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#198

Post by mattront »

It could also be that her Facebook profile was public and she posted public status updates (default FB privacy setting) about what she plans to do in the US. No PRISM necessary for that, just a FB account.

Just try a search on FB for a random name and open a couple of profiles. It is baffling how much personal information is publicly available.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#200

Post by einhverfr »

acchow wrote: post #182
AJ007 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never has there been any dispute that the NSA can freely read what non Americans are doing without any sort of legal authorization. One would assume that access is given to Customs & Dept of Homeland Security too. Some of the NSA leakers think this is wrong, but I have not heard any elected government official state otherwise. Too some extent, this NSA story should be of equal or greater disturbance to non-Americans.…

How do you infer someone's citizenship from their FB profile?

Well, only 15% of profiles are by Americans, so if you have an FB profile there is an 85% chance you are not an American. That's a bit above the 51% confidence the NSA requires ;-)
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