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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

191–200 of 420 posts

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#191
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

> These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case.

That's a common miss-belief. Its false on so many levels, but people keep believing in it even after it has been found to be false every single time it has been said.

To take an example with wiretaps in US. First they said that any data found about innocent bystanders would be imminently destroyed. A few years later, they change the rules to keep it, but proclaimed that it was just 60 days. Years later, they put out a small press release and changed it to 5 months.

Or take the Swedish wiretap law. Politians and collumnist promised high and low that it would never, EVER, be used for anything but terrorism threats outside the national border. They said that anyone believing otherwise was tinfoil hats, and just misunderstood the issue. Before a year had passed, the secret police (for internal security) was granted an exception. A few months later, government politicians got an exception. At the same time, the police got an exception to target serious crime. A few months further down, and it was talks about using the data for our version of IRS.

Yes, never ever indeed.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#192
I am convicted hacker that got caught through the patriot act (which was to catch terrorists)[0].

The biggest two lessons I learned from what I did was..1) if I can't tell someone what I'm doing it's probably wrong (I was 19 when I hacked Google, Etrade, and Schwab and thought it was ok)...and 2) if I have nothing to hide, then I shouldn't care to use the internet.

All this is really is confirmation more than a discovery.

[0] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/05/man-allegedly-b/

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#193
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

As many have stated, the problem is with inevitable abuse of power. It may or may not be happening now, but it will. Recent IRS disclosure that they targeted Tea Party-linked organizations for audits is one example. I doubt it was deliberately ordered by the administration, but someone, somewhere thought it was a good idea. Search queries alone will probably tell you which way a person is leaning in an election. That…

Think it through! Every politician, not just the conservative ones, was happy when somebody finally noticed this story. IRS agents have done whatever they wanted to private citizens, with no consequences, for decades. Then they questioned (they didn't fine, prosecute, garnish, imprison, or confiscate) political groups that claimed to be educational groups, and as a result the agents got censured, fired, and prosecuted. The media and most people are too lazy to think through the inevitable consequences, but don't dream that the politicians are. Will political groups ever be investigated by the IRS again?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. This seems a rather inappropriate apho…

>This seems a rather inappropriate aphorism, since most people here would very much like to deny the NSA access to information about their phone usage. This is an argument against censorship rather than one in support of privacy.

I have no idea how you interpreted it that way. The quote is in reference to the government. It's from a video game, which came out in 1999.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY57ErBkFFE

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#195
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

It seems odd to claim both that:

- This government program is widely hated

- We have a functioning democracy

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#196
post #173
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

The problem is when things get "tough" certain individuals will use this for political purposes or some other gain. It is like IRS targeting "tea party" - but much more scarier. But I grow up in Eastern Europe, so I'm unreasonably concerned and paranoid. It will not happen here because we are so special. /sarcasm.

If more people knew their history, they would understand that this is a modern age Star Chamber, tied into a network that would make the Stasi envious.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#197
post #54
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropbox has every encryption key used with Dropbox, so they can decrypt any file. Both transport keys and storage keys. Dropbox does at least (allegedly) encrypt stuff for storage, so they can RMA hard drives without having to destroy them first, but that's pretty meaningless. There are some (flimsy) reasons for Dropbox to have copies of all storage keys (a web UI, which only some users use). Dropbox has done a good…

Use Bit Torrent sync

When it's out of beta, maybe.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#198
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Information from intelligence programs has already been used in non-terrorism cases, like those of Petraeus and Spitzer.

In fact most PATRIOT Act "sneak & peak" searches have been for drug investigations.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#199
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the 2nd page of the article : “Google cares deeply about the security of our users’ data,” a company spokesman said. “We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law, and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege that we have created a government ‘back door’ into our systems, but Google does not have a ‘back door’ for the government to access private user data.”

They are legally required, personally and individually, to lie about the existence of these programs, or go to prison instantly. These orders are gag-ordered by default.

I doubt that Steve Jobs or Ballmer would "go to prison instantly" if they had disclosed the existence of these programs. Yes, they might have been prosecuted under statute, but they wouldn't vanish. In fact, the high visibility of Brin, Jobs, Ballmer etc would probably have been a deterrent against prosecution. Can you imagine the outrage if Jobs came out with a statement saying that the NSA was requiring that Apple grant access to all user data, and he was then incarcerated?
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