“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car” • Hacker News Board

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#191

Post by stcredzero » Thu, May 09, 2013, 7:51 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #19

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the…

> In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills.

In other words, the firm already is sitting on top of a machine that prints money. Of course the first instinct shouts, "Don't rock the boat!"

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#192

Post by rsync » Thu, May 09, 2013, 7:54 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #21

codex wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory: it all comes down to the maturation of the underlying technology. Tesla has been around for ten years. Why is their mainstream car only coming to market now, after all that time? Part of it is that creating a new car company takes a lot of time, but most of it is that the battery and other technologies have only recently matured enough to make EVs practical. Tesla has been waiting and waiting until this oc…

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

"You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?"

This cannot be overstated.

I don't like a lot of the Tesla S design - both interior and exterior. Further, my use case(s) don't necessarily lend themselves perfectly to an electric car.

But the Tesla has a third row with five-point child harness seats built fucking in[1]. This feature alone changes my life. The existing auto industry answer to carseats and children in general ranges from "makes me want to kill myself to insert/remove carseat" to "merely makes me want to kill others".

How much of the rest of a Model S is like this ? Apparently the shocks/suspension are[2].

[1] Optional. [2] http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2012-tesla-mo...

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#193

Post by alexqgb » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:07 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #171

mindcrime wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I am embarrassed to be from North Carolina. sigh For the record, not all of North Carolina is so backwards.

Don't sweat it. It actually has less to do about NC's citizens and a lot more to do with how the auto industry has dug it's claws into the legislatures of every state in the union. Your state isn't the only one in this situation. FYI this is a good podcast explaining how we got to this point: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...

The exact same fight is being waged in Texas by the established dealers there.

Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation."

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/11/3948/6-car-dealers...

This raises the larger point about car finance in general, which has become the heart and soul of the business. Essentially, the major car companies have become banks with manufacturing wings attached. The interests, skills, and motivations of their senior ranks tend to reflect this non-automotive set of priorities, so it's no wonder that Musk was able to poach serious talent. People who have obsessed about cars their entire lives finally found an employer who wouldn't leave them to die on the vine.

Which brings us back to point #1 about business in general: it's not about what's on the table. It's what's in the chairs.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#194

Post by cma » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:12 PM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #188

cma wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't add up with this: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tsla+earnings But, that may not be GAAP. Where did you find that total?

You can go to google finance: https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATSLA&fstype=ii... And then select 'Annual', 'Balance Sheet', and then look at the line item for "Retained Earnings (Accumulated Deficit)" Or alternatively, from TSLA's 2012 10-K: "We incurred a net loss of $396.2 million for the year ended December 31, 2012. In addition, we have accumulated net losses of $1,065.6 million from our inception throug…

Well then, that's because I was looking at "since going public", since that is what the guy I replied to said. But you and the original poster are right since you are talking about 'since inception'.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#195

Post by aetherson » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:13 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #179

beat wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM already had this, with the Chevy Volt (a very interesting concept in its own right). But the problem is, despite a highly sensible transition approach from gasoline to electric, it's still a CHEVY. It's built to Chevy construction standards, Chevy aesthetics.

Is the Chevy standard a good or bad thing? I ask this because the cars they sell (or rebadge then sell) in New Zealand aren't really that well built compared to European and Japanese cars.

beat at least intended it to mean a bad thing.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#196

Post by mblakele » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:13 PM UTC

startupstella wrote: post #58

I just drove a Tesla Model S last weekend. Here are my perceptions, as I was SUPER curious about the car before I drove it: Pros: 1) The drive is AMAZING. The car is quiet, it accelerates amazingly, and the regenerative braking is really cool. 2) It feels like the future. The huge computer screen is cool (but distracting, you can go on the internet at anytime). 3) The ability to get software updates all the time is c…

In California, 1353.9 pretty much requires condo management and similar authorities to accommodate electric vehicles. IANAL, but I have served on an HOA board for my sins. You will usually have to get approval, supply proof of insurance coverage, and pay any associated costs - but it can be done.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&#3... has the relevant code.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#197

Post by alexqgb » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:18 PM UTC

127001brewer wrote: post #80

[deleted] wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years. I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"? Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.

Today, the iPhone IS the Personal Computer. If that's not massive, category-changing, ecosystem-disrupting, change, then I don't know what is - especially since it reverberates across once-unrelated markets like GPS, photography, cartography, and...well, pretty much anything for which there's now an app.

Jesus, even the word "app" is new.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#198

Post by aetherson » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:19 PM UTC

rjurney wrote: post #130

technoslut wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it was a secondary underlying theme to the lousy movie "The Dilemma". I'm sure it can be done but the question is whether someone wants it. Many in that class would probably adjust quicker to the silence of EV's than a lie. Do keep in mind that engine noise is not only beneficial to the driver but cyclists, other motorists and at crosswalks as well. It's not a problem that is easily solved and satisfied by all p…

I almost get hit by hybrids when not paying attention. Cars need to make noise like natural gas needs to have a scent added. Safety.

Natural gas is invisible. Guess what isn't?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#199

Post by pbreit » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:19 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #151

pbreit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty dumb that upstarts have such large advantages against incumbents merely because incumbents choose not to disrupt their legacies. You see the same thing in airlines. You'd think there'd be little harder than starting an airline and yet southwest, JetBlue and virgin come in and have great success.

Virgin America is certainly not having great success.

Here's but one data point, albeit, a big one: Airline Quality Rating, the premier statistical study of major airline performance in the United States, ranked it #1 in 2012.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#200

Post by zachgersh » Thu, May 09, 2013, 8:23 PM UTC

cbr wrote: post #122

obviouslygreen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes , it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before. "Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.

The Model S is "Cool", perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes , it's just a new kind of car that doesn't use gas (really, a big golf cart). It won't "change the automotive industry." It's introducing a new line of the same products we had before. With the Model S you still have roads, parking, large upfront costs, a driver,…

So what is actually considered innovative in your opinion. I don't know about you but building charging infrastructure in addition to producing top class electric cars seems like a pretty big shift to me.

Think about what happens if the car really catches on in China (somewhere that has a ton of vehicles and needs a more environmentally friendly solution).

I think you are significantly underestimating the removal of gasoline from the car equation.