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How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

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Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#191

Post by hakaaaaak »

stcredzero wrote: post #102
kenfromm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love this comment, "I'm terrified of both."

That's how you gauge the experience of a programmer: how much of the field she/he's terrified by. EDIT: I originally meant this as a joke, but seriously, if someone accurately knows where the gotchas are, that's valuable. Also note if they're biased to false positives and/or false negatives, and by how much. Are their heuristics for dealing with unknown territory efficient and likely to converge on good approximate r…

> That's how you gauge the experience of a programmer: how much of the field she/he's terrified by.

I'm terrified by what I don't know, especially by what I don't know that I think I should know, to be "in the know".

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#192

Post by rektide »

Peaker wrote: post #146
rektide wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could adopt some kind of event-based system in scala or clojure, but Erlang and Go are alike in being the lone runtimes where running millions and millions of very small messaging processes is AOK no problem for the runtime, and not something one has to work really hard for. Fun and joy are terms applicable here because the alternative is Erlang. Zing! Go is rather ideal for these guys use case: if it wasn't an e…

Haskell's runtime makes for cheaper threads than Erlang. Possibly cheaper than Go's, too.

Are they also in Haskell as in Erlang pre-emptable by the runtime?

There's certainly some cost in this design decision, more context that has to be swapped in and out and more state kept, but it's important capability to allow blind design & use- think Node, where everyone has to keep re-iterating how important it is to keep yielding to the event loop, to not do a lot of CPU work in a handler: irrelevant in Erlang world- in spite of the threading model not being OS threads, Erlang is happy to drop your lightweight thread on the fly when it sees fit.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#193

Post by drivebyacct2 »

trungonnews wrote: post #188
rmoriz wrote: post #62

How about BDD, test-driven development and quality insurance? Does Go provide an ecosystem that supports agile refactorings that are common in lean startups? You can say anything bad about the performance of Ruby and Rails etc. but rspec, cucumber, capybara, vcr, factorygirl are really important features to start from zero and reach a viable product.

Go doesn't have any mocking framework like Mockito/Java or Rspec mock. You will end up writing a ton of code yourself if you want to mock something simple.

Uh what? No, that couldn't possibly be less true. Have you ever heard of "interfaces" in Go? They're kind of an important feature.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#194

Post by jebblue »

http://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html

>> Q. How does Dart relate to Go?# Dart and Go are both language projects started at Google, but they are independent and have different goals. As a result, they make different choices, and the languages have very different natures, even while we all try to learn from each others' work.

Hmm, don't think I want to bet the farm on that.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#195

Post by drivebyacct2 »

jebblue wrote: post #194

http://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html >> Q. How does Dart relate to Go?# Dart and Go are both language projects started at Google, but they are independent and have different goals. As a result, they make different choices, and the languages have very different natures, even while we all try to learn from each others' work. Hmm, don't think I want to bet the farm on that.

Don't want to bet the farm on what, do you mean Dart or Go sticking around? Go is used extensively through Google. It powers a significant DB layer that powers YouTube. It serves up all of Google's static downloads and several employees hint at other significant projects they can't speak about.

I've only dabbled in Dart, I can't speak to how vital it is, currently it only seems viable when translated to JS or when using in a server-side VM, which is certainly an option if you want.

(sorry, I originally had written Google where I meant YouTube, see "Vitess" for more info)

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#196

Post by VeejayRampay »

cartwright wrote: post #186
rgbrgb wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this definition, Ruby/Rails are pretty crappy (I kind of disagree). As a newcomer, the amount of stuff going on in a Rails app and the stack trace when there's an error are pretty overwhelming. Meanwhile, people expound on how simple and elegant Rails is. Lately I've been thinking that this is because those people started using it 5 years ago when it was small and their knowledge has built incrementally with the e…

Rails is pretty crappy if you ask me. It's "omakase" which is Japanese for "acts according to what DHH wants despite what the community wants". And there's a lot of magic happening that isn't explained very well. There are better frameworks in Ruby. Ruby itself doesn't take all that long to be an expert at.

Though I could argue that all the languages pretty much take the same amount of time to become an expert. Just because some languages are supposedly higher-level than others doesn't mean that the complexity they allow you to tackle (and associated challenges as a programmer or "expert") is any less.

Especially since being a good programmer is more about design, choice of interfaces, reactivity to change, etc. which are by definition language agnostic.

I firmly disagree that Ruby requires any less effort than say C, C++, Java or LISP to become an expert.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#197

Post by paddyforan »

rmoriz wrote: post #179
paddyforan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing: http://golang.org/doc/code.html#Testing Iterating: http://vimeo.com/53221560

from a testing point of view this looks pretty week. I would not bet my business on something that has not a testing culture.

I wouldn't say Go doesn't have a testing culture. On what basis do you make that assertion?

I write better tests for my Go code than for any code in other languages that I write. But maybe I just think in complementary ways to Go's testing philosophy.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#198

Post by jbooth »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #187
TresAmiga wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong and you know it. Go does not have generics so you have to use void* (interface{}) and casting. It ends up being about an order of magnitude uglier and more verbose. Which is why map, fold, etc don't exist in Go. You go fanatics are incorrigible.

Seriously? Is this just a coincidence that another throwaway named "TakeTwo" and then "TresAmiga" are both making throw aways and dismissing all Go users? Jesus. What he's describing is far more than possible using interfaces. I have plenty of code that does so. How is that "wrong and he knows it". Your worse than any Go fan here. Where the hell does someone get off being vitriolic about a language or someone's prefe…

There's some idiots who troll the #golang-nuts freenode channel occasionally with a bunch of spam saying 'node is way better!'.

I assume they're not gainfully employed, or else they would understand that the two languages/platforms have very different goals and principles.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#199

Post by bpicolo »

sabat wrote: post #157
dkkkdkdk wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR: I'm butt-hurt that people are dumping Ruby. And because I hate Java I'll blame it on it also.

Not quite. He's saying that people who think Ruby is slow are often people who have no idea how to performance-tune it.

Well, more of the time it's because Ruby actually is, in fact, slow.

Re: How We Went from 30 Servers to 2: Go

#200

Post by mh- »

rfk wrote: post #130
DASD wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks waterside81. Can anyone explain the difference between Mozilla and Mozilla services? A cursory glance seems some of the Github repositories overlap.

Mozilla Services is the team within Mozilla that builds/runs much of the backend infrastructure, e.g. the firefox sync servers, marketplace servers etc. The existence of separate "mozilla" and "mozilla-services" github projects is largely a historical accident, since different teams started moving to github organically at different times. (Source: I work for Mozilla, on the Services team)

Source: I work for Mozilla-Services
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