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The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

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Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#191

Post by slowin »

ColdStream wrote: post #186
areoform wrote: post #88

For the first time in human history, the cost of surveillance has dropped below the cost of privacy. It is more expensive today to maintain your privacy and anonymity than it is to surveil you. The collective surveillance grid makes it possible to track people's movements, whereabouts, their predilections, political views, personal images and more for a few cents every day. It's a bargain. And in this new world, the…

It is a great example of how difficult it is to anticipate the N-th order effects of things. 79 years ago the transistor was invented, in less than a century it ended up being the back back of a global surveillance system. Not many people could have foreseen this. Cheaper computer technology has been great for the average persons uses but it cuts both ways. It also means much cheaper surveillance. I suspect that gove…

> 79 years ago the transistor was invented, in less than a century it ended up being the back back of a global surveillance system. Not many people could have foreseen this.

George Orwell was pretty on the mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-F...

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#192

Post by kraken_cult »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #185
spawarotti wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is never followed up with a “yes, but …” (realistic evaluation of how politics actually works). OK, but following this logic, shouldn't we disband the government altogether and have mafias rule us all? When is it acceptable to hope that something is actually going to work well enough when handed over to the government?

> OK, but following this logic, shouldn't we disband the government altogether and have mafias rule us all? Conservatives seem to be fine with mafia rule, so long as the don has the correct party affiliation. > When is it acceptable to hope that something is actually going to work well enough when handed over to the government? Mob rule doesn't with very well as a defacto government, or oligarchy. Nor food and drug s…

US is currently recovering (fever breaking) from the petty and micromanaged stage. We haven't been coherent as a nation for like 20+ years.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#193

Post by [deleted] »

intrasight wrote: post #181
judge2020 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By demonizing them and failing to engage with the worries over social media and pornography We have brought it on ourselves. There is a really good way to do this that solves most concerns: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu... The only real downside to this is that a 0kp cannot be reliably tied to an identity of the person using the device and thus tickets could be proxied/shared around w…

Those in tech who study this already understand the need to hardware attestation. Everyone else will understand soon enough. Old hardware will have to be grandfathered. Old cars don't track us and that has created a market for old cars. Hardware age attestation will be a long timeframe project. The current work should be towards standards that can get us there. Finally, anonymity didn't exist for my grandparents. It…

[deleted]

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#194

Post by cgriswald »

slg wrote: post #162
dionidium wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever argument they make should be simply ignored and dismissed. This makes very little sense. People sometimes appeal to the safety of children cynically, but it's very often sincere, since parents genuinely do worry a lot about their kids . You can tell people to ignore these appeals, but it won't work, and you'll be leaving better arguments on the table.

The main example that comes to mind is anything having to do with the environment. “The kids” will face the brunt of our actions (or inactions) on that front so a “for the kids” argument is completely valid. Dismissing a proposal simply because of a “for the kids” element is incredibly reductive and will genuinely end up harming kids.

“For the kids” arguments are distinct from arguments worrying about future generations in that they are almost entirely focused (ostensibly) on preventing harm to children while they are children rather than “all our descendants including the adults”.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#195

Post by 6r17 »

ColdStream wrote: post #182
6r17 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My issue with the whole move out of country X is that, where would you move to? It seems like everyone is moving in lock-step globally.

War is coming to Europe. At this point I'm even thinking about moving to China - at least they don't accept Zuckerberg checks. Tbf in my case I'm also a tech holder - so i'm just getting robbed.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#197

Post by arjie »

energy123 wrote: post #126
josh_p wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the other commenter who replied to you. I don’t think this comes from actual parents. And the article suggests this latest push is from right-leaning groups whose goals are surveillance and censorship. That said, I’m a father of 3. I’m a millennial and tech worker. I have the digital literacy to teach my kids about the internet and its horrors in a safe way. Not every parent does, so passing this off as…

> I don’t think this comes from actual parents. The polling I have seen from Germany and Australia of a social media ban for children was quite in favor of it. Sentiment here on HN and on Reddit was the polar opposite. We are in a bubble.

Sentiment here is the same mostly. It’s just guised in an inability to handle the obvious next step. E.g. when a mentally ill person uses ChatGPT and harms themselves, the question asked is “why did we let this person use ChatGPT?” There’s no way to do this allow/deny functionality without an extensive ID service. “Kids are using service A or service B and the social media companies aren’t doing anything about it!” Well, it’s not possible to offer something to a person and determine that they’re not a child except with some service that identifies child/adult.

The answer every time is “well then Google/Apple/Facebook/Shopify/mcMaster Carr shouldn’t exist as a business” and if I’m being honest that is not an achievable target so you’re going to arrive at the attested internet.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#198

Post by [deleted] »

cgriswald wrote: post #194
slg wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main example that comes to mind is anything having to do with the environment. “The kids” will face the brunt of our actions (or inactions) on that front so a “for the kids” argument is completely valid. Dismissing a proposal simply because of a “for the kids” element is incredibly reductive and will genuinely end up harming kids.

“For the kids” arguments are distinct from arguments worrying about future generations in that they are almost entirely focused (ostensibly) on preventing harm to children while they are children rather than “all our descendants including the adults”.

[deleted]

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#200

Post by ColdStream »

iamnothere wrote: post #40
walrus01 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to plan for managing the fallout Put in a less polite way, they're preparing for the metaphorical pitchforks and torches held by mobs of the common people which might manifest themselves in a more kinetic format.

Yes. My hope is that the rare earths shortage, memory shortage, and current focus on munitions will delay the era of drone-based policing until after the crisis.

I suspect the crisis isn't a short term economic shock but a long term decline from resource decline, possible water/food shortages amplified by climate blow back. Something that will not end in your lifetime or the next generations.

Military's, intelligence agencies and actuaries have been warning about this for decades now and their language is getting very direct on this and the time lines nowadays.

If you have ever been caught in a rip while swimming, there is a moment when you suddenly getting a sucking sensation as you transition from stable waters into an outward flow. I am starting to think we are in that transitional phase on global stability, that the 2030's are not going to be a comfortable time for many.

They are ensuring that potential disruptors can be reigned in if needed. To try and stop things from being even more unpredictable, for better or worse. Buckle up.

You don't build long term surveillance systems and billionaires don't build bunkers for what they think of as a temporary tough situation.

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