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Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#191

Post by jmyeet »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

There's a saying "open source is for losers". What it means is that winners in a market don't want open source. The losers in a market push for it to commodify it eliminate the winner's advantage.

Now some of these tech companies open source various libraries but none of it is core to their business. It's marketing, essentially. Or they're trying to get free labor from the community. Google had protocol buffers and Stubby, for example. Facebook had no open source equivalent and didn't have Google's resources so they created Thrift and open sourced it.

Given this, many people, myself included, take Meta releasing open weight models as conceding defeat. They're unable to compete with Google, Anthropic or OpenAI. Their failures in attracting and retaining top AI talent backs this up.

So what you're seeing is people just piling onto Zuckerberg because he seems to have no idea of what to do with Meta. The Metaverse was a $70B+ disaster.

Note that Chinese labs don't fit this model because the Chinese government wants to commodify models as a national security interest.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#193

Post by sanderjd »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

I don't know about "unquestionably", but yes, I think this is a better path than the proprietary models.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#194

Post by PunchyHamster »

twright wrote: post #187

This paragraph is wild. > As a thought experiment, imagine only one person had a superintelligent lawyer. They would have an unfair advantage in court -- even if they were wrong on the merits. That would lead to a worse society. But now imagine everyone has a superintelligent lawyer. In this case, justice would be carried out much more fairly and efficiently than it is today when there is often an imbalance in skills…

Yes but if lawyer was "just a bit of AI" you can run at fraction of the cost of hiring law firm, you couldn't just drown them as easily.

> Whoever has more money can drown someone in court filings and court fees and then drop their case financially ruining someone.

and where the money is going ? to the lawyers...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#195

Post by creaturemachine »

bluGill wrote: post #172
FireBeyond wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Sandberg has not sued for defamation…

Is it really worth getting a lawyer? Even of you win what is the gain?

They could have it taken out of print if it was as fictional and damaging as some say. I see new copies are still for sale so it can't be that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#196

Post by gaigalas »

293725903 wrote: post #148
gaigalas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psalm 135:15-18 is my favorite version of it, the most clear-headed. It reads more as a warning "if you do this, then this will happen" than an unreasonable commandment. The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see. They have ears, but cannot hear, nor is there breath in their mouths. Those who make them will be like them, and so will all…

Your bible is truly full of wise words to live by. Not at all the insane ramblings of hallucinating conmen: 1 Kings 18:36-40 36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people wil…

I said "Don't worry about the scriptures". It's not my bible, I'm an atheist. I see the book as a heavily altered collection of multiple historical sources, not as a holy monolith.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#197

Post by nkrisc »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

Because there is so much good he could do right now with what he and Meta already have, but they don’t, because it will lose them money.

For example, hiring more people to moderate content on Facebook and stop ads featuring CSAM from being displayed.

Billionaires didn’t get to be billionaires by being altruistic. If they say something they’re doing is good for the world, you should be looking at how it will be good for them, because that’s why they’re really doing it.

Will it incidentally do some good for others? Perhaps. Is it a net positive? We’ll see because there’s precious little we can do to stop them from doing whatever they want.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#198

Post by scoofy »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

We support an open model ecosystem (because we failed to produce a successful closed model).

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#199

Post by nerevarthelame »

I prefer open models. But in his essay, Zuckerberg's broader picture of the future is not one I want to embrace: everyone with a personal agent that has information on and involvement with every aspect of our lives, including our relationships and hobbies. Like, his daughter loves to bake, so his AI agent chooses recipes and orders ingredients - as if though those aren't enjoyable and meaningful parts of cooking.

Another example Zuckerberg gives is an LLM analyzing his sleep patterns. Do you need an AI to tell you if you're fucking exhausted every day? Is that analysis somehow going to give you more time to sleep?

It's a technocratic fairy tale founded on the idea that modern problems are driven by a lack of personal analysis rather than external pressures that are often systemic and out of our control. So far, LLMs have made a lot of those systemic issues worse: concentrating more wealth in a smaller number of people's hands, increasing consumer electricity and electronic prices, etc.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#200

Post by dofm »

godzilla_let_them_fight.gif

More seriously, I am glad if this has become a battleground again. Not least because the only way out of the bubble economy is to at least try to deflate it before it explodes.

A little animation of the idea that open weights can be an American competition might also fend off the idea that the government should be the bag holder for OpenAI and Anthropic, and prevent them aligning with the administration's current '50s nostalgia FUD about communists.

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