Earlier quoted context omitted.
@antirez is a very prominent open source contributor that gets lot of shit done with LLMs. Mitchel Hashimoto is also open about using LLMs to speed up his work. There are some caveats attached: neither of them is doing crazy loops or graphs producing thousands of lines of code, they are both amazing software engineers and they know what they are doing.
Yes. Feels like the better you are at your craft the better the tools work.
Is it all just vapourware?
191–200 of 206 posts
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did but it was followed by "holy shit now I gotta review this +3000 -500 LOC PR full of subtly wrong abstractions, needless diversions and incorrect assumptions". People keep repeating your sentiment here but I simply can't follow, are we even on the same planet? Or did everyone switch to just not caring about maintainability and code quality anymore? Or are your work tasks simply so mindnumbingly, stupidly simple…
I think to effectively use LLMs in a controlled way, they can help with three things: - Help you pump out boilerplate, or otherwise "obvious" code, that you can review at a glance - Help you gain understanding, either through rapid plan writing/revision or code quality/architectural/security analysis. The gotcha is that it can only help along one axis at a time, or at least can only communicate information sensibly t…
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scaling AI use in highly-collaborative environments, which open source projects are, is very challenging. I totally understand the apprehensiveness around it.
How is it challenging for open source projects? You just write a PR, and try to get it to meet the maintainer's quality bar. That's exactly how all code is written in any environment - you do code review and refine a PR until its good enough to be merged
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it challenging for open source projects? You just write a PR, and try to get it to meet the maintainer's quality bar. That's exactly how all code is written in any environment - you do code review and refine a PR until its good enough to be merged
With AI and how a lot of people use it, the quantity of written PRs goes up, but the quality goes down, and the maintainers of the project, who are often volunteers, now have to deal with this in addition to the standard work they've been doing before.
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that were true, we'd expect to see massively accelerated velocity of open source projects by these engineers. They should be creating new open source projects at a truly astounding rate, with new tooling springing up every day that dwarfs the existing open source space as their productivity completely eclipses traditional development Instead, software is plodding along exactly the same as it did prior to LLM code…
Github's Octoverse report kind of gives you that evidence, no? Pull requests landed in 2025 were up 30% over 2024. This year it's going to be much higher.
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. Feels like the better you are at your craft the better the tools work.
AI is a power tool/factory with no safety features. Expertise is required to get anything useful from them.
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#197Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did but it was followed by "holy shit now I gotta review this +3000 -500 LOC PR full of subtly wrong abstractions, needless diversions and incorrect assumptions". People keep repeating your sentiment here but I simply can't follow, are we even on the same planet? Or did everyone switch to just not caring about maintainability and code quality anymore? Or are your work tasks simply so mindnumbingly, stupidly simple…
Mr lucky over here with an agent that removes code!
Find some code you're proud of. Find someone else's code you admire. Find something that's been stable for 20 years with no bugs reported. Feed it in, ask it to look it over, and prepare to be humbled.
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
AI is a power tool/factory with no safety features. Expertise is required to get anything useful from them.
Yep, much like having access to a circular saw won't make me a carpenter, having access to an LLM won't make the average person a software engineer.
Re: Is it all just vapourware?
#200I'm Matt, I run Product & Engineering at Ona.
First, thank you for trying the product and for taking the time to write this up. I shared the post with our product engineering team. There are several things in your experience that simply aren't good enough, and we're working on them. I've also credited $200 to your account in case you do want to explore further.
To be concrete:
> My very first encounter with the app was that I was unable to login on their desktop version at all. Auth is hard, so I can empathize and forgive this.
Whilst I appreciate the forgiveness, we hold ourselves to a higher bar than this.
We've done extensive testing of the desktop authentication flow and haven't yet been able to reproduce the failure you experienced. If you're willing, could you email me at matt at ona dot com? I'd like to grab some logs and work out what went wrong.
> it spent nearly my entire $20 worth of “ona compute units”, whatever those are, thrashing and trying to get a hold of the todos from linear just so it could pick one to start.
Looking through what happened, there were a few different things going on here.
- Roughly a quarter of the OCUs were spent by our devcontainer setup agent. That agent created a PR which standardises the development environment and adds install, build and CI tasks so that future agents can operate in a reproducible environment. There is real value in doing that setup once, but we did a poor job of making it obvious that it was happening, why it was happening, and what you were paying for. We'll fix this. We've also switched that setup agent from Sol to Luna as of today after tuning it against our evals. This should make that setup substantially cheaper going forward. - The Linear flow also involved far too much friction. You went through multiple authentication and setup steps before the agent could actually get to the work you wanted it to do. That's not the experience we want. We have shipped a fix that lowers this friction already, and have a couple more planned (that will take a little longer). - OCUs themselves are our attempt to combine model and compute consumption into a single unit. If someone has paid us money and still can't tell what they're spending it on, that's a problem. We're actively revisiting how we explain and expose this.
> This only adds more friction between me and my projects, which is literally the opposite of what I want when I pay for developer tooling.
I agree completely. Today, Ona asks a lot of a new user before it has earned the right to ask for that investment: connect this integration, authenticate that service, let us configure the environment, understand what an OCU is.
The thing we need to get better at is making the initial experience more boring: sign in, point Ona at something useful, and see it accomplish something valuable before you have to think about any of the machinery underneath.
> The thing is I think ONA is a good idea. I am evidently willing to pay for this kind of tooling. But I want a version that works without lighting twenty dollar bills on fire.
Based on your experience, I can see why you reached this conclusion.
If you're open to it, I'd love to spend an hour with you to help you get Ona working on something useful and show we can achieve what we outline in our marketing. No expectation that it changes your opinion but I'd like the opportunity to learn from what went wrong and show you what the product should have felt like the first time. Email is as above.
I look forward to hopefully connecting soon.
- Matt