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Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

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Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#191

> In one landmark 2000 study, neuroscientists compared the brains of licensed London taxi drivers with those of people who did not drive cabs. Location is very important here. London cabbies have to pass The Knowledge which is an extremely difficult memory exam that only people with particular kind of brain can do.

They have to memorize 25,000 streets. The test is no joke. [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur61kzXjvN8

Would they typically also relearn this at intervals. If you take 5000 rides a year, maybe 2000 streets that is 23000 you didn't get to remember though experience.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#192
post #30

Taxi Drivers: The mean age at death is approximately 67.8 years. General Population: in the same dataset, life expectancy averaged 74 years. The average age at which patients are typically diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease is 79. People in these jobs don't live long enough on average to get diagnosed, at the same rate. The same effect will happen in any job that lowers your life expectancy.

It pains me to see such a low-effort contrarian comment at the top: as stated in TFA taxi drivers are below other profession when controlling for age, and there are multiple professions with lower life expectancy that still have significantly higher Alzheimer rate than taxi drivers.

A better low effort contrarian comment - isn't it that early symptoms appear less often with people with a "reserve"?

Being mentally active (or physically active?) IIRC makes actual plaques both less likely, but also less detectable - a taxi driver can forget 90% of what they know and still not get diagnosed because they don't get lost on the way to the shops. Also they are often masters of small talk.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#193

> In one landmark 2000 study, neuroscientists compared the brains of licensed London taxi drivers with those of people who did not drive cabs. Location is very important here. London cabbies have to pass The Knowledge which is an extremely difficult memory exam that only people with particular kind of brain can do.

Indeed. Elsewhere in the world taxi drivers just follow the GPS.

Maybe when they're new. In time they tend to learn the shortcuts that the apps don't show and ignore navigation here and there.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#194
I wonder if the usage of mobile navigation will increase Alzheimers for our generations.

When driving I either now the way or use maps, there is rarely any guesswork or active thinking involved, maybe running is helping but even there I sometimes run routes navigated by watch.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#195
post #173
post #172

Does gaming also use similar spatial skills?

I have a feeling gaming is quite harmful for spatial skills in the long run, because you learn many different maps (often transient ones in rng-ed games), rather than one fixed one. I would not be surprised if an epidemic of early mental decline begins to show in gamers in coming decades. I'm 36 now and feel like my spatial reasoning is declining in a strange severe way.

I wonder if it's actually anything to do with mentally mapping digital areas per se, or if it's more to do with the fact that you're not engaging your senses in the same way as when you're moving around a physical space.

If I go to a new place, say a gas station, there's a specific route I took to get there. There's smells and sounds and sights that will be specific to that time and place. I feel like that will generate a memory that's much grittier for the brain to hold on to, than one where I've digitally moved through a place. When I jump around a Quake map, I know where I'm going, but there's no wind in my face and I'm actually sat in a chair.

Sure there's sounds and sights in digital spaces, but they don't smell like anything and you're not actually touching anything but your mouse and keyboard. And the sights and sounds are less textured than real life - repeating assets, limited number of sounds etc. You're not gonna be surprised by a new birdcall, or a sudden burst of smell when the gas station guy opens the grill.

Knowing how important smell alone is to memory, I wonder if what's actually happening is that you're mentally engaged in a pretty narrow way when gaming, and that that's not really the best way for a brain to operate for long stretches of your life.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#196

I wonder how it will look when we start doing statistics on gamers, if AI doesn't destroy our brains first. Then it would be interesting to plot the different death by genre like for example strategy, FPS, puzzle, etc. Someone else asked about Chess players which is probably also related right. My grandad essentially died of alzheimers and he just loved to sit and watch football all day where you don't really need to…

That’s an interesting point and we have not really had a reliable dataset to qualify individuals as “professional gamer/streamer” vs a hobbyist.

Their content publication history should be a good metric for establishing our future subjects and departed ones as engaging in above average gameplay for each specific genre.

I’ve always found it fascinating that I could recall essentially turn by turn navigation of WoW classic routes in which I spent countless hours. I’ve always thought about trying the memory palace technique and using those routes which would probably work well.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#197
post #194

I wonder if the usage of mobile navigation will increase Alzheimers for our generations. When driving I either now the way or use maps, there is rarely any guesswork or active thinking involved, maybe running is helping but even there I sometimes run routes navigated by watch.

Purely anecdotal, but I experimented with getting rid of my phone entirely for 6 months (using VoIP on my laptop for calls and text), which meant I had to plan my route ahead of time using online maps (OsmAnd). I found that my short-term memory improved noticeably and I could easily recall 10 digit numbers I just saw briefly.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#198
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There weren't a lot of taxis outside of major cities. I think widespread GPS allows ridesharing apps like Uber and Lyft to exist in suburbs and other places where taxis weren't a thing before, because it dramatically lowers the bar.

> There weren't a lot of taxis outside of major cities What? In my country at least (France), taxis have been a thing even in the countryside for as long as cars existed (or rather, as long as the telephone has). And I'd be very surprised if that wasn't also the case in most of Western Europe. In fact it's a much easier job when it comes to routing and knowing your passengers' destinations than doing it in a metropol…

In America, ordering a taxi before rideshare apps was unreliable at best, if you were outside of central parts of major cities.

More than one time I got stuck somewhere and had to walk 4 hours home.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#199

> London cabbies must memorize more than 25,000 streets within a 6-mile radius of Charing Cross, a challenge known as “The Knowledge” that takes three to four years. What the hell. I passed all the test for driving cabs in Stockholm, Sweden. I had to memorize 20 regions in the city. I wonder if this requirement applies to all taxi drivers, including Uber.

In germany you had to do an exam to prove your local knowledge before driving a taxi, this did not apply to uber which pissed the taxi drivers off.

They got rid of the exam in 2021, now you only need an navigation device in the vehicle.

Re: Taxi drivers rarely die of Alzheimer's

#200
Related:

Alzheimer's disease mortality among taxi and ambulance drivers (2024)

229 points, 4 months ago, 137 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47559481

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Taxi drivers offer a clue to Alzheimer's risk

127 points, Dec 2024, 109 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42502899

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Alzheimer's Mortality Lowest for Taxi, Ambulance Drivers

12 points, Dec 2024, 9 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42450455

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