Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

academic.oup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 221 posts

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#191

Post by wnolens »

phil21 wrote: post #183
iammjm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I did it: this is about two things: mornings and evenings and both need attention. Set a new wake up time. Deduct 7 hours from it. Deduct one more for buffer. This tells you when you need to be in bed with lights out and trying to fall asleep to then get the mandatory 7h of sleep to be a functional human being in the morning. If your new wake target is 5:45, you need to be in bed lights out at 22:45 and s…

I have done all this and more. Done all the stupid advice you get from everyone who was simply a morning person living an irresponsible life but then grew up, hired professionals, and even tried prescription drugs for a period of time. It is not totally doable. It just makes fitting into the economic world slightly less shitty. I yearn for retirement not so I can stop working, but so I can finally get a full “night”…

In all software jobs I've had (small, medium, and big tech), there's been no question about my start time. This has allowed me to sleep until 9-10am, and start work at 11. Huge help for getting any amount of good work out of me.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#192

Post by sigmoid10 »

siren2026 wrote: post #90
sigmoid10 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating several aspects here. The 6am hustle culture originated during the industrial revolution in Britain. And the reason why people struggle with melatonin cycles is because it is almost impossible to escape artificial light. A single bright light exposure at night can acutely alter your hormonal levels. I'm not saying that what I have done is easy or even possible for everyone.

The thing is that we all have different natural thresholds. This paper was eye-opening to me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36799668/ Essentially some people will naturally delay sleep multiple hours after the last light. It is believed it might be an evolutionary mechanism to not have every single person asleep at the same time. And I don't care where hustle culture started. It is more alive than ever in America.

All these studies are highly limited. In addition to general self-reporting issues, you can't say anything about natural day and night cycles unless you carefully control all light exposure (and ofc other stimulants like caffeine, exercise or simply noise) for an extended time. Noone available as participant in these studies would have been living like humans used to before artificial light. You can't expect an undisturbed circadian rythm from them.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#193

Post by theusus »

siren2026 wrote: post #93
theusus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waking up at 6 AM and doing workout did wonders to my mental health.

What do you think was the difference with working out in the evening or just shifting your day by a couple hours?

Lifting heavy in the morning uplifted my mood. Gave mental energy for the rest of the day. I took small nap after it but that’s it.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#194

Post by listless »

kylecazar wrote: post #132
DANmode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 is almost universally too much. 4 is almost universally too much.. 3 is the most I’ve ever recommended. More than enough.

I take a 3mg every night, but I've read that independent labs have studied the common OTC brands and found wildly different Melatonin content than advertised. So I really don't know how much I take.

I take 1.25 every night. I titrated down off of three and ima keep going. I cannot tell the difference between those doses. Both make me very drowsy.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#195

Post by mettamage »

mrcode007 wrote: post #166
budsniffer952 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely invalid. Small dose melatonin is all over Amazon and iHerb.

Share a link to 0.1 dose product please

I think you mean the US version of things. But here is my favorite from the Kruidvat in NL [1]. Time released melatonin works a bit better for me.

[1] https://www.kruidvat.nl/shiepz-melatonine-time-release-0-1mg...

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#196

Post by xtracto »

avesi wrote: post #163

In holistic circles, people swear by magnesium. Magnesium glycinate in particular has worked really well for me. It makes sense, because magnesium is a co-factor for converting tryptophan into serotonin, which is turned into the hormone melatonin. So, you could try supporting your body's natural production of sleep hormones by ensuring you have enough available tryptophan and magnesium in your diet.

A couple of years ago, my wife (around 40 at the time) was struggling to sleep (she had very light sleep and woke up in the middle of the night for no reason). She tried most of the things everybody recommends, melatonin, slow release, Gaba, magnesium, etc. The only thing that helped was ZMA (a compound body builders use with Magnesium and Zinc).

No idea why, but while the Magnesium alone didn't do anything, the ZMA helped her.

Nowadays we always have a bottle by the bedside. I use it sparingly whenever I want to get deep sleep. What I like vs Melatonin is that when I take Melatonin I dream a lot and I dont feel that "rested" next morning. I even wake up groggy. With ZMA, I sleep very deep, like shut my eyes and suddenly I am wake next day. I feel way more rested.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#197

Post by leawi »

bityard wrote: post #186
tedggh wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs are regulated with the same care in the US, the problem is you are comparing a drug in Europe with a dietary supplement in the US. You can’t expect to grab a high quality of any dietary supplement from say Walmart. It’s the same in Europe. In the US there are labs making high quality dietary supplements, but you usually don’t find them at retail stores or even Amazon, so it needs a bit of research.

You seem to be beating around some kind of bush by intentionally neglecting to define your definition of "high quality" in this context. Are you saying that 1mg of melatonin from Walmart or Amazon do not actually contain 1mg of melatonin?

I'm a different person here, but yes, this is actually the case more often than not.

https://aasm.org/study-finds-that-melatonin-content-of-suppl...

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#198

Post by coldtea »

briHass wrote: post #178
tedggh wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs are regulated with the same care in the US, the problem is you are comparing a drug in Europe with a dietary supplement in the US. You can’t expect to grab a high quality of any dietary supplement from say Walmart. It’s the same in Europe. In the US there are labs making high quality dietary supplements, but you usually don’t find them at retail stores or even Amazon, so it needs a bit of research.

Walmart typically carries a large selection of supplements from the 'Nature Made' brand (yellow label), which tests/certifies most of their products through the independent 'U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP)'. While that may not help with the arguments over the correct dosage, it at least means you can trust the ingredients and dosage on the label isn't a lie. A random mail order supplement or bulk powder seller on Amazon...no…

>which tests/certifies most of their products through the independent 'U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP)'.

Which is some entity who cares, or who would approve plutonium as a school lunch if the factory paid enough?

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#199

Post by ACS_Solver »

siren2026 wrote: post #96
andrepd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silly to say that "Europe" has substantially different working hours for the majority of the population, compared to the US. Grindset hustle sigma influencers are an outlier of course.

For having lived in both continents, American is generally an early morning culture and Europe is generally an evening culture. There are local differences within the continents of course.

I wouldn't generalize Europe like that, our differences in the normal schedule are massive from north to south.

Here in Sweden, it's a morning culture. Blue collar workers often start work at 7, daycare is open from 6 in the morning for parents with early jobs, dinner is at 18 or even 17 for people. At 22, most places are closed including supermarkets and restaurant kitchens. Lunch for the vast majority of working people is at noon.

That is totally different to a country like Spain, where you see families - with kids! - start dinner at 21 or later. In Sweden people would say it's strange not to have your kids in bed by then. Lunch is at 14, cities are full of life until midnight every day.

A large part of that is probably due to daylight hours. A big chunk of Sweden is dark by 16 for the winter half of the year. During November-January there's minimal light and it's gone by 15.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#200

Post by rapsey »

potamic wrote: post #115
rapsey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insomniac for 20 years. What was a complete solution for me was: magnesium, b6 p5p (p5p form very important) and the ultimate punch glycine. Glycine takes some getting used to, as you will have crazy intense dreams at first. But it is a very safe supplement to take even in large doses. I always had huge insomnia issues after a physically intensive days after workouts. The stack I settled on solved it. A heavy day jus…

How much of each do you take and when do you take them?

B6 40/50mg depending on the pill.

Magnesium 300mg or so.

Glycine I started with 3/5g, now I take like 30g

Post reply on HN