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The Dark Night of Mathematics

kirwinhampshire.substack.com

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Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#191

Post by tptacek »

xorcist wrote: post #180
tptacek wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think you're pretty overconfident here. A plumber is not in fact thrilled by the genie who permanently resolves all the world's plumbing problems. I also kind of love the subtext in these responses that there is something suspect about crafts.

That thought experiment says more about your thoughts on plumbers than anything else.

I live in Chicagoland, which has the largest water reclamation facility on Earth in order to prevent the entire region's basements from flooding under storm water pressure. It doesn't work, and I have multiple times had the pleasure of watching from my basement stairs as plumbers waded through raw sewage to clear obstructions in the lines at my house. It's a tough job that requires a lot of skill and nobody is doing that for love.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#192

Post by zarkov99 »

jonnybgood wrote: post #183
marifjeren wrote: post #136

Grateful for this essay. Made me feel seen. Someone said: > No one is stopping you from doing what you enjoy. But that's wrong. LLMs are creating an environment in which some things are no longer enjoyable. For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

Interestingly, I have heard more of those who have regained their joy of programming because of LLMs.

For the most part those are people who were not previously able to create because of skill atrophy or lack of programming aptitude. From their point of view being able to command (for now) a more capable entity to do what they (think) they want is an improvement.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#193

Post by boinkboink78912 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #148
Jtarii wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creation is the actually enjoyable part. Taking a helicopter to the top of Everest is not as rewarding as climbing the mountain. You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work, and not just, telling someone else to do the work. There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting, like mathematicians enjoy the act of proving theorems and progra…

Jobs are not generally meant to be enjoyable (although that is a benefit if so), they are meant to get work done. It's funny seeing office workers here on HN have this sort of opinion and contrasting that with blue collar workers, ask a miner or house builder how fun their job is.

Don't many blue collar workers (miners & house builders) do actually take immense pride in their work? There are woodworkers out there whose hobby is also woodworking.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#194

Post by majormajor »

satvikpendem wrote: post #148
Jtarii wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creation is the actually enjoyable part. Taking a helicopter to the top of Everest is not as rewarding as climbing the mountain. You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work, and not just, telling someone else to do the work. There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting, like mathematicians enjoy the act of proving theorems and progra…

Jobs are not generally meant to be enjoyable (although that is a benefit if so), they are meant to get work done. It's funny seeing office workers here on HN have this sort of opinion and contrasting that with blue collar workers, ask a miner or house builder how fun their job is.

> ask a miner or house builder how fun their job is

The average person on a residential job site I've talked to has looked and sounded like they're having as much fun as the average software dev. And none of them have said stuff like "people on my team have confided that they cry every night because the higher-level management keeps screaming about the project not being done" like I've heard at from folks, say, certain big social media places...

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#195

Post by majormajor »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #174
BobaFloutist wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some painters can't paint if they can't sell.

This the problem. The need to make money in order to justify your right to survive is the problem. Painters shouldn’t be mad at AI, they should be mad at the system.

>Painters shouldn’t be mad at AI, they should be mad at the system.

AI helps enable the system. It makes it easier for the haves to justify a lack of sharing—or need to share—with the have-nots.

"There are more tools available for you to do more work faster than ever! I'm not a greedy hoarder partying while others suffer because of my choices, you're just not dedicated enough to learning and using those new tools! The tools take away your excuses for not being economically valuable to me!"

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#196

Post by jibal »

Jtarii wrote: post #99
d_burfoot wrote: post #92

Every single knowledge worker is going to face this kind of crisis. It will be worse for people who cared deeply about their craft, but the crisis will have the same shape. The way through is to change the way you relate to your work, and to appreciate the fact that you can now produce far more output. Mathematicians should realize: instead of spending decades on individual theorems, you can now create whole new subf…

The creation is the actually enjoyable part. Taking a helicopter to the top of Everest is not as rewarding as climbing the mountain. You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work, and not just, telling someone else to do the work. There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting, like mathematicians enjoy the act of proving theorems and progra…

> You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work

This sort of intellectually dishonest ad hominem is so tiresome. They did no such thing.

> There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting

AI hasn't stopped anyone from painting.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#197

Post by larodi »

here's unpopular view - thousands of people felt the dread of mathematics, that is no more, as they may advance together with the LLM. perhaps brilliant incredible in math lived, but they were not so many perhaps. now everyone can have one and if passionate for math - get up to speed. why is this bad? why would an LLM make me, an adorer of algorithms and structures, stop do what I love - pursue them? if LLM puts you off, perhaps you were chasing something else.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#198

Post by jibal »

Jtarii wrote: post #114
tidojo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can’t climb to the moon, you need rockets for that. In the hands of great researchers, AI will accelerate and propel human knowledge far beyond what we could achieve with pencil and paper alone.

I think you replied to the wrong comment.

No, they obviously didn't.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#199

Post by nine_k »

satvikpendem wrote: post #148
Jtarii wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creation is the actually enjoyable part. Taking a helicopter to the top of Everest is not as rewarding as climbing the mountain. You are completely discrediting the joy humans derive from actually -doing- the work, and not just, telling someone else to do the work. There is a reason artists hate AI, its because they enjoy the actual act of painting, like mathematicians enjoy the act of proving theorems and progra…

Jobs are not generally meant to be enjoyable (although that is a benefit if so), they are meant to get work done. It's funny seeing office workers here on HN have this sort of opinion and contrasting that with blue collar workers, ask a miner or house builder how fun their job is.

Food is not meant to be enjoyable, it's meant to nourish. But by a fortunate coincidence it may also be tasty. Now imagine replacing ice cream, or steak, or fresh berries, or whatever you enjoyed eating, with something like Soylent or Huel with a side of puréed kale. Your nutrition may actually improve, but something would be lost, won't it?

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#200

Post by nestorD »

marifjeren wrote: post #136

Grateful for this essay. Made me feel seen. Someone said: > No one is stopping you from doing what you enjoy. But that's wrong. LLMs are creating an environment in which some things are no longer enjoyable. For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

> For example there is less joy to be had in learning a programming language in 2026 than there was in 2016, because there is less utility in it now.

I... disagree. The joy I get from learning a programming language does not come from knowing that it is useful. Rather, it comes from engaging with its abstractions and figuring out the associated mental puzzles.

On a related note, I recently realized that I am barely writing code these days (instead I am reviewing a lot of LLM-written code and nudging it in the right direction) which will make doing the advent of code (which I usually use to play with a language I have never used) without any LLM help even more enjoyable: it will be both the fun of figuring out those puzzles in a new language, and stretching my code-writing muscles.

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