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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#191

Post by bigfishrunning »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #12
chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

I think its a proxy for general populist sentiment. "These AI people are getting rich selling unicorn farts while I'm on the same pay and everything is more expensive, fuck them".

The best way to keep the AI people from getting rich selling unicorn farts is to not buy any unicorn farts.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#192

Post by bigfishrunning »

oooyay wrote: post #31
chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

> No one ever cared about DCs before now. Society hasn't felt the very real effects of data centers until recently. Power supply being short meant that residential customers have had to pick up the tab for heavy industrial users. We've started to learn just how bad all those dams we built are for the environment and many of them are tied to data center money. Elon Musk waltzed into Memphis and stood up a natural gas…

> Power supply being short meant that residential customers have had to pick up the tab for heavy industrial users.

Maybe some kind of progressive pricing for power would be appropriate. I'm not sure if this exists, and correct me if it does, but maybe the second MW should cost an order of magnitude more then the first, and so on.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#193

Post by whalesalad »

f33d5173 wrote: post #187
whalesalad wrote: post #128

I would flip my bitch switch if a datacenter was stood up near me, where I could hear it. I am on 5 acres in rural Michigan surrounded by peace and quiet. I specifically came here for this reason. At the same time, I understand that we need datacenters. And tbh, Michigan is under-served in this space (ex, most of my queries thru the Cloudflare network have to go to Chicago first), and I wish we had more. But not clos…

Oh yeah right, underground data centers. What are you going to say next, data centers in space? Be real.

Geothermal heating/cooling exists because deep down in the soil temperatures are fairly constant. And the earth is a fantastic insulator both in temperature and sound. Aside from the cost of digging a giant hole, there really is no reason not to be doing this.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#194

Post by ratelimitsteve »

zardo wrote: post #107
maerF0x0 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)

> I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.

>they'll just build it somewhere else

what seems to be happening in practice is that the companies building these data centers will just take you to court over the limits being illegal and make that fight cost more than the town's entire annual budget, thus inducing the town to give up.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#195

Post by 8note »

linksnapzz wrote: post #175
NohatCoder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You "suspect", but your suspicion comes with a unit of energy, which simply does not make sense in the context. The rest of us are talking about effect.

Shrug You asked about energy usage; but I have no idea as to how that bakery's natural gas usage affects the people surrounding it. The smell of freshly baked fig newtons might offset the possible increased cost of gas-per-cubic-foot.

ok, but like, my stove uses some therms of natural gas, but its not at all comparable in terms of scale to a data center.

what makes this bakery comparable in terms of energy usage and pollution?

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#196

Post by duped »

rconti wrote: post #169
redlewel wrote: post #30

I think this is because the demand is so extreme for datacenters now that companies are building them in a manner that disrupts the environment around them. The newer ones are using on-site generators that are insanely loud and require multiples more power than datacenters have historically needed. For a rack with traditional servers with just RAM/CPU/Drives, 5kW is sufficient in most cases. When you have racks that…

I don't think the average person actually knows anything concrete about them. They're a proxy for peoples' sense of powerlessness about what's going on around them. Skyrocketing electricity prices, the sense that elected officials aren't looking out for their interests, job losses, etc. They're a convenient proxy for many disparate concerns because they represent all of those things in one way or another.

> I don't think the average person actually knows anything concrete about them.

A new class of oligarchs are trying to obsolete every profession and human endeavor for the sole purpose of enriching themselves. You don't need a PhD in environmental policy or domain expertise in construction to listen to what AI advocates are saying and realize their success comes at the expense of society, and say "no thank you."

Data center construction is not a proxy for powerlessness, but the vanguard of the powerful.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#197

Post by BeetleB »

Aurornis wrote: post #20

I agree that I don’t want a data center in my backyard either. What’s missing from this strange conversation is discussion about how many data center proposals are near residential areas. I tried to look for one in my state and a few surrounding areas and couldn’t find any. There was an amusing story about how data center protestors had to organize expensive bus trips to get the protesters out to the data center site…

I can't speak for elsewhere, but a town near me has a few data centers, and the anti-datacenter sentiment precedes their use for LLMs.

They simply take a lot of space, and the city gave sweet tax deals, and they employ almost no one. The locals aren't happy with that type of land use.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#199

Post by duped »

gortok wrote: post #16
chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

> I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. This comes cross as unbelievable, and at worst a fantastical statement, as someone who lives in Northern Virginia and is effectively watching the Datacenter battle unfold from the front lines, and dealing with the local politics and electricity costs rising at a precipitous rate. Our el…

> They’re not responsible for the rise in the cost of utilities and shouldn’t be held responsible for it.

One thing that has near radicalized me is the rampant dishonesty on this subject. Data center builders/users have the audacity to tell me that my rates aren't going up, but also if they are it isn't their fault, but even if it is their fault they will actually lower my rates in the long term (but somehow, never promising to pay us back for the damage in the short term).

It really, really bothers me how slimy the people doing this are.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#200

Post by BeetleB »

chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

> No one ever cared about DCs before now.

Just because you were not looking doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Anti-DC sentiment has been high in some places before LLMs came on to the scene. Even HN has had multiple submissions of towns in rural areas fighting not to let Meta (or similar companies) build datacenters in their town.

(On the flip side, I know at least one town that welcomed them!)

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