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Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

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Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#191

Post by embedding-shape »

jq-r wrote: post #185
embedding-shape wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last three times that Europe had a large independent military force(s), things didn't end so well for the world. Name one country with a large military force that done more good than bad with it? Seems to come with the territory that if you have a large military force, you somehow need to use it for something as otherwise it falls into disrepair, and that "something" tends to be trying to spread your culture on…

> Come to think of it, seems China is the only country so far (in modern times) that haven't abused their military to enforce their will on smaller countries Philippines would disagree with this one.

Yeah, that's my bad, I later correctly used "superpower" rather than "country" but missed that on my first usage. Was talking about "the big bois countries" :)

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#192

Post by villish »

palata wrote: post #190
villish wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure for a German company in Germany that's perfectly reasonable, but we're not talking about each country in Europe having their own copy of AWS/Stripe/Search. In reality all the data will be in France/Germany/Netherlands because that is where the infrastructure is. They also happen to be countries with world class intelligence agencies. We need better services and protocols developed with privacy in mind from the b…

> but we're not talking about each country in Europe having their own copy of AWS/Stripe/Search. We're not talking about having hyperscalers in each country, but I could totally imagine each country having infrastructure. > In reality all the data will be in France/Germany/Netherlands Having the choice between 3 European countries is already a lot better than giving all the data to the US. The US has been a lot more…

> Having the choice between 3 European countries is already a lot better than giving all the data to the US. The US has been a lot more hostile to European countries than "the intersection of hostility from France/Germany/Netherlands".

History shows conflict seems to be inevitable. You can't assume all European nations will be friendly forever. I'm American, but my hope is that this knee-jerk reaction to just move everything possible to EU has more thought behind it. Improving upon what we currently have especially with respect to privacy so that everyone in the world may benefit rather than just clone American tech and calling it a day.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#193

Post by betaby »

Bender wrote: post #174
betaby wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If one has ever tried to announce an ARIN IP in the EU or a RIPE IP in the US they will send warnings that the allocations will be pulled back if that is not fixed. Who are "they" in this case?

ARIN, RIPE, APNIC, AFRINIC, LACNIC. If you have announced addresses from one in the others region and have not received warnings it's just a matter of time. ARIN is the most vigilant. There was a time they used to do ping sweeps and nag people about not utilizing their addresses which led to my putting a 1U server on a /17, /19 and some smaller networks with Labrea responding to pings for all of it. They stopped doin…

Surely that not the case. Check any public BGP looking glass: Arelion/Telia uses RIPE space in the USA, Lumen/Level uses APNIC space in Europe and so on.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#194

Post by embedding-shape »

atoav wrote: post #184
embedding-shape wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but if any US three-letter agency knocks at a US companies door and says: "Nice business you have there", will they resist just to not sell out their EU customers? I don't think so. I don't think it's a matter of "resisting or not", they literally have no choice and can typically also not tell anyone because of gag orders. That's why things like Amazon's "EU Cloud" isn't really interesting to anyone in EU and…

> I don't think it's a matter of "resisting or not", they literally have no choice and can typically also not tell anyone because of gag orders. I would not rule out there are organizations/companies in the US who would rather give up their business than fold to the pressure, which is why I let this open. I know there are some US entities who have public carnary style notices ("We have not been visited by a governmen…

> I would not rule out there are organizations/companies in the US who would rather give up their business than fold to the pressure, which is why I let this open

I wouldn't rule that out either, but also to be entirely realistic, AFAIK, there been one (Lavabit) company in the last twenty-or-so years that went the way of quitting the business instead of just complying. People nowadays seem even less to give up profits in the name of principles, so I'd also wouldn't be surprised basically no one actually doesn't fold.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#195

Post by throwaway894345 »

InTheArena wrote: post #123
650REDHAIR wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remember the last time China threatened to invade Denmark? I do remember the last time the USA did. It was hours ago at a NATO summit.

s/China/Taiwan? or Tibet? You are comparing sensational trolls with actual geopolitical history.

“Guys, he’s obviously just trolling—he would never actually do that, it would be insane!”

-MAGA Right before Trump tried to steal the 2020 election, militarily occupy US cities, annul various amendments, start the Iran War, etc.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#196

Post by kingstnap »

speedgoose wrote: post #145
andy_ppp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still amazed my company is paying £10k per month for AWS when they could have one or two servers on Hetzner do the whole thing.

Hetzner increased their prices a lot last month. It makes having hardware on premise worth thinking about again.

Given current prices I doubt anyone is itching at the bone to spec out hardware.

Idk where you would even buy registered DDR5 dims right now. Newegg shows $Request a quote money and that its built to order ... for a 64 GB stick lol.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#197

Post by Bender »

betaby wrote: post #193
Bender wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARIN, RIPE, APNIC, AFRINIC, LACNIC. If you have announced addresses from one in the others region and have not received warnings it's just a matter of time. ARIN is the most vigilant. There was a time they used to do ping sweeps and nag people about not utilizing their addresses which led to my putting a 1U server on a /17, /19 and some smaller networks with Labrea responding to pings for all of it. They stopped doin…

Surely that not the case. Check any public BGP looking glass: Arelion/Telia uses RIPE space in the USA, Lumen/Level uses APNIC space in Europe and so on.

ARIN are the most aggressive about it. Maybe others just don't care any more. They certainly used to. I would never hear the end of it. Perhaps others pushed back enough to stop that practice elsewhere.

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#198

Post by palata »

villish wrote: post #192
palata wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we're not talking about each country in Europe having their own copy of AWS/Stripe/Search. We're not talking about having hyperscalers in each country, but I could totally imagine each country having infrastructure. > In reality all the data will be in France/Germany/Netherlands Having the choice between 3 European countries is already a lot better than giving all the data to the US. The US has been a lot more…

> Having the choice between 3 European countries is already a lot better than giving all the data to the US. The US has been a lot more hostile to European countries than "the intersection of hostility from France/Germany/Netherlands". History shows conflict seems to be inevitable. You can't assume all European nations will be friendly forever. I'm American, but my hope is that this knee-jerk reaction to just move ev…

Not sure you understood my point.

- IF you can choose to rely on one of [France, Germany, Netherland], then you would need to be in conflict with all three to be screwed.

- IF you can choose to rely on a service in your country, it's better for sovereignty.

Overall, it's all better for competition. The best would be competing services sharing an open core (or even everything).

> this knee-jerk reaction to just move everything possible to EU

The thought is that if you are in the EU, in terms of sovereignty you are better off giving your data to EU services. US companies give their data to US services, so of course it is much less of an issue there. And Americans are not the last to complain when US companies give their data to non-US companies...

Re: Europe's company websites are mostly served by US vendors

#200

Post by rusk »

Ampersander wrote: post #113
rusk wrote: post #60

“American website hosting companies are disproportionately exposed to market shock from their European customers”

Where would those European customers go? China? Africa?

I was suggesting that website hosting isn’t a particularly hard problem with no moat. European customers could go literally anywhere.
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