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Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

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Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#191

Post by Night_Thastus »

taffydavid wrote: post #184
Night_Thastus wrote: post #102

No they don't. Why should they bother? * Costs them money to make * Costs them money to maintain * Will only be used by a TINY subset of ultra-enthusiasts (no, neither HN or Reddit are majorities) * Every user on it is less telemetry and less advertisement The reality is that most users don't care, and will just use whatever seems to work fine. Finding out that 'oh yeah, feature/software X does not work on Windows Li…

The sad truth is Microsoft is so heavily invested in and indebted by AI, advertising and telemetry that the only way Windows lite would ever get the greenlight is if the company tanks, loses billions and pivots away from everything they've been pushing for the last decade. And then maybe we could get the dream that is Windows lite

AI has essentially nothing to do with it. This was standard well before AI took off.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#192

Post by AlexeyBelov »

xingped wrote: post #151
lenkite wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With over 1 billion monthly active users, reddit is not a minority and is a significant fraction of internet users. Btw, people complain about Windows bloat on Whatsapp too. Now, that IS a majority of internet users.

You have to realize that the majority of reddit "users" are either bots (especially now with LLMs making it so easy to generate text on the fly) or utterly braindead. Just last week I got banned and comment deleted from a subreddit calling out someone for deliberately spreading false information. Their comment? Still there. I have one friend who just loves listening to AI readings of AI-generated drama farming conten…

No, Reddit users are not braindead or zombies. It's one of the most visited sites on the internet with a varied demographic. They are just normal people.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#193

Post by aaronsung »

wjnc wrote: post #123
CamperBob2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even enterprise customers are allowed to use LTSC. Only hardware OEMs. It's asinine. They could charge $1000+ for LTSC licenses, but my data and digital sovereignty is apparently worth even more to them.

Economically, you would probably be the only customer (stated willingness to pay can differ from market outcome ;) paying that amount. Your stated willingness to pay has little relation to the true value of our data and digital sovereignty to Microsoft. A funny estimate is possible though. MSFT 2750 G$ market cap and 550 M business users. That’s 5 k$ per user. Grossly misrepresenting everything (AI bubble, other cash…

Indeed there are much more customers than you could imagine in the non-profit/ government sectors paying for that. There are a lot of compliance regulations regarding to data governance that force them to use a clean and lite LTSC version of Windows.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#194

Post by tpoacher »

sph wrote: post #159
tpoacher wrote: post #157

There is already a "Windows Lite", and it's called ReactOS [0]. Except, the last thing we need is for Microsoft to own / embrace-extend-exterminate this. It's best that it's kept as an independent project, enabling developers to target the Windows API if they feel like it, while ensuring that they only target the Wine-compatible parts of it, which then enables their software to also run seamlessly on other platforms…

I think the author meant something that can be used in practice for real work, not a cyclopean effort of clean room reimplementation of Windows as a hobby for part-time volunteers. The reality is as you said, only Microsoft can make Windows Lite, and they don’t care to.

Possibly, but that still doesn't mean there isn't a real benefit to developers developing for ReactOS as a proxy for developing for Windows in a manner that makes their products instantly compatible with Mac and Linux.

The "real work" part is mostly about the user. And that depends on available programs on the platform, not on the user's boundless love for telemetry.

OP seems to be mostly addressing developers here, so the point stands.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#195

Post by taffydavid »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #191
taffydavid wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is Microsoft is so heavily invested in and indebted by AI, advertising and telemetry that the only way Windows lite would ever get the greenlight is if the company tanks, loses billions and pivots away from everything they've been pushing for the last decade. And then maybe we could get the dream that is Windows lite

AI has essentially nothing to do with it. This was standard well before AI took off.

Back before LLMs they were stuffing Cortana in there. I don't know if they ever marketed that as AI but it was named after an AI character in a video game

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#196

Post by RiverCrochet »

okanat wrote: post #190
xigoi wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is simply more money invested to make consumer drivers work on NT. Linux is often an afterthought for many consumer device manufacturers. There is still not enough buy-in. This would not be the case in the hypothetical situation where Windows becomes a Linux distro.

That's the last thing in the list and the looping phase of catch-22. Without providing the other earlier items, it simply doesn't make sense to make Windows a Linux distro. NT is still the better solution. Unless Linux kernel becomes very friendly to closed source drivers and gets better isolation and stable APIs, no consumer company will ever invest in Linux. Providing a closed-source friendly ecosystem for both the…

Device/board manufacturers shouldn't be hiding information needed for an OS to talk to it and use it behind an NDA. I bought the hardware, the operating system and applications I use it with are my business. Closed-source drivers shouldn't be a thing.

I know that they are, and it's sad, but I'm glad Linux (as opposed to some things built on Linux like Android) fundamentally holds this ideological position and takes a stand here. No PC hardware business would even exist if its base platform wasn't made to be an open on by IBM and Compaq in the early 80's.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#197

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

vovavili wrote: post #156
CamouflagedKiwi wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also kind of pointless. Almost immediately, something will be installed that will require installing the .NET runtime, maybe multiple versions of it. If the argument is to try to prohibit it, then it just won't work as a platform, because too much existing software won't work on it. There's a lot of garbage I'd love to not have (all the stupid hardware config apps all the manufacturers push on you) but just havi…

>Almost immediately, something will be installed that will require installing the .NET runtime, maybe multiple versions of it. That's because Windows ships with an ancient .NET 4.8.1 by default. Purely a mistake on Microsoft's part not to bundle modern .NET with their product and force software packaging hell.

Sure, that's only made worse by the suggestion here to not install any version of it at all.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#199

Post by CamperBob2 »

VitalKoshalew wrote: post #125
CamperBob2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even enterprise customers are allowed to use LTSC. Only hardware OEMs. It's asinine. They could charge $1000+ for LTSC licenses, but my data and digital sovereignty is apparently worth even more to them.

That's incorrect. Windows LTSC rights are included into Windows Enterprise E3 subscription as well as a VL (EA, MPSA etc.) perpetual license. [1] 1. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-...

That's incorrect. The article merely addresses availability, not licensing.

"Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC is designed for devices that have strict change-management policies with only security and critical bug fixes." There is no way for anyone, enterprise or otherwise, to license LTSC for conventional use on their own PC. LTSC IoT is the successor to Windows CE, strictly licensed for embedded applications like kiosks, ATMs, slot machines and the like.

When you do license LTSC for a device, you obtain the .iso the same way as all other volume-licensed versions. That's all the article at your URL is talking about.

Re: Microsoft Needs Windows Lite

#200

Post by CamperBob2 »

liamwire wrote: post #146
CamperBob2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even enterprise customers are allowed to use LTSC. Only hardware OEMs. It's asinine. They could charge $1000+ for LTSC licenses, but my data and digital sovereignty is apparently worth even more to them.

Seconding the correction that LTSC is not restricted to hardware OEMs. I work for a multinational construction materials company and we image LTSC machines day in day out.

Not legally, you don't. Not unless this has changed drastically since Windows 10.
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