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AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

tomshardware.com

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Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#191

Post by iririririr »

blacklion wrote: post #78
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of subscription heated seats in bmw cars. The hardware is already there, you paid for it and you can’t use it unless you give the automaker a revenue stream on top of the tens of thousands you already paid for the car.

Same with some old IBM hardware: two CPUs were installed in each box, but if you bought only 1 CPU server other one is disabled via firmware.

intel/amd does that and nobody calls them out. ibm at least is upfront and less poluting as you can use the same device. Intel, after they burn the fuses, that cpu will always be an i3.

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#193

Post by iknowstuff »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #66
hgoel wrote: post #62

It's pretty crazy that we have this entire segment of features that companies artificially restrict from the average person and overinflate the price of, for no real reason. GPU virtualization is another example of such a feature. The market segmentation arguments don't really work either, enterprises are paying the big bucks for more than just these standalone features.

Reminds me of subscription heated seats in bmw cars. The hardware is already there, you paid for it and you can’t use it unless you give the automaker a revenue stream on top of the tens of thousands you already paid for the car.

Well you didn’t pay for it though did you. The subscription is foul but the manufacturer choosing to streamline manufacturing by only having one variant restricted with software if you don’t pay is not particularly bad or surprising. Plus, easy to hack it back in, so win win

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#194

Post by [deleted] »

chironjit wrote: post #158
thg wrote: post #12

This was never marketed as a feature of the consumer CPUs and if some malignant actor does get physical access to my (consumer) hardware, then them being able to read out bytes through cryo-freezing the RAM really isn't high up on the list of things I'm going to worry about.

So that burn notice episode about freezing ram is real? Damn, thought they made it up

[deleted]

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#195

Post by m3047 »

kobalsky wrote: post #143
pshirshov wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feature was off by default in all the mobos I've seen. It causes many stability issues, as to my experience. The attack is sophisticated, Mr.Nobody, generally, should not worry about expensive cryogenic attacks - three letter guys would extract your key with a wrench. I mean the change is bad - it undermines already damaged trust, but the "average Joe" is extremely unlikely to be affected directly. There are man…

> three letter guys would extract your key with a wrench. Are people still using this to justify no encryption? that comic sure did a lot of damage. Mr. Nobody should be able to decide how much they want to protect themselves. If it's unstable maybe Mr Nobody is fine with it. Raising the cost of achieving this to enterprise budgets, just because, seems suspect. Specially when there are so many attempts to undermine s…

So we're shaving yaks here but instability undermines nonrepudiability. Mr. Nobody might welcome deniability in the appropriate circumstances...

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#196

Post by westurner »

simcop2387 wrote: post #176
thg wrote: post #12

This was never marketed as a feature of the consumer CPUs and if some malignant actor does get physical access to my (consumer) hardware, then them being able to read out bytes through cryo-freezing the RAM really isn't high up on the list of things I'm going to worry about.

It's more than just for cryo-freezing and attacks like that, it also helps defend against row-hammer and other DRAM refresh related issues since the scrambling means that the host kernel or application can't determine what the physical bits on the chips are going to actually be and end up determining the layout in a way to flip specific bits. It might still be possible but it's yet another layer of defense against me…

RAM crypto mitigates side channels.

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#197

Post by loloquwowndueo »

iknowstuff wrote: post #193
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of subscription heated seats in bmw cars. The hardware is already there, you paid for it and you can’t use it unless you give the automaker a revenue stream on top of the tens of thousands you already paid for the car.

Well you didn’t pay for it though did you. The subscription is foul but the manufacturer choosing to streamline manufacturing by only having one variant restricted with software if you don’t pay is not particularly bad or surprising. Plus, easy to hack it back in, so win win

Or I can just not buy a bmw :)

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#198

Post by port11 »

iknowstuff wrote: post #193
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of subscription heated seats in bmw cars. The hardware is already there, you paid for it and you can’t use it unless you give the automaker a revenue stream on top of the tens of thousands you already paid for the car.

Well you didn’t pay for it though did you. The subscription is foul but the manufacturer choosing to streamline manufacturing by only having one variant restricted with software if you don’t pay is not particularly bad or surprising. Plus, easy to hack it back in, so win win

It’s a bit of double dipping then: the streamlined production makes the seat cheaper, and people who subscribe further increase the margin on the heated seat.

I really don’t understand the subscription model applied to a physical piece of equipment that has no digital maintenance overhead.

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#199

Post by sph »

thg wrote: post #43
close04 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparent communication would have been appreciated nonetheless. You have customers not just lawyers on the other side, it's not just about making sure you're legally covered.

Let me give you an analogy: If you e.g. figure out some undocumented endpoints for a REST API, which are intended for internal use only, and started using them, do you expect the developers to inform you about changes? As far as AMD is concerned, this was never supported, nor documented. Now pulling the rug with a firmware update isn't a very nice thing to do, but maybe they've had some actual reason for that beyond…

Thank you for defending the Big Corp.

Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs

#200

Post by rolandog »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #90
rolandog wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't matter; it's post-sale enshittification... They didn't even wait to make the next model shittier! Also, it probably wasn't the selling point, but it was the baseline of quality, and probably documented online or in manuals. Furthermore, accepting this as normal opens the door to further post-sale enshittification of ALL things. Next thing you know, upgrades here and there are going to degrade the quality…

This is FUD. We have no idea the reason why. Given it was never marketed, it's possible perhaps despite the feature being exposed it never worked correctly and AMD saw fit to just disable it rather than people get a false sense of security through it.

What is it about today's tech scene that makes you think it's FUD? Do you see strengthening regulations that prevent monopolistic and anti consumer practices? Do you see more competitors and companies being split, or are have there been more consolidations and stripping and politicizing of personal rights and freedoms?

I'm all ears.

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