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U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

timescolonist.com

191–200 of 299 posts

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#191

As a physical oceanographer, the destruction of these observing systems is horrific. It is hard to stress enough how intentionally OMB is trying to disassemble American science. The new (proposed) OMB guidelines prohibit international collaboration without pre approval for example. They also codify a political grant approval process. https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/05/the-office-of-manage... Additionally, OMB is…

The other thing they've done is make it possible to cancel any grant at any time if it goes against the politics of the current executive administration. Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing, entire areas of science have flourished that would never have happened otherwise. That's not to say that politics is completely out of science, Cong…

>Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing

Please don't take this as a defense of the Trump administration pulling these ocean sensors, but the previous administration also had political demands on grants. One of the better articles about this I've found is "Politicizing science funding undermines public trust in science, academic freedom, and the unbiased generation of knowledge" - https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/research-metrics-and-an...

This ended up getting grants cancelled because they'd throw in a line so the DEI checkbox would get checked, and then Cruz went through with a hacksaw and cancelled the grant for it, as Scott Alexander found - https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/only-about-40-of-the-cruz-w...

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#192
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but I think climate scientists can enumerate major carbon sources and sinks. Unfortunately your comment is so vague that I can't tell if you're referring to a specific thing some person said or if you're just imagining a guy to be mad at.

>I think climate scientists can enumerate major carbon sources and sinks Science has no idea where 2-3 gigatons of carbon go every year. That's a BIG number. And it is a big deal. And it has been missing for decades now. All the time you were calling someone a science denier, you've been completely unaware that you can't even account for all the major carbon sources/sinks. https://www2.nau.edu/~gaud/bio326/class/ecos…

Science hasn't figured out how the entire planet works yet so we should do less science?

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not even about saving money. If they just wanted to save money they'd just stop paying attention to the data coming in, retask/lay off the people working on it, and let the buoys stay out there. A dumb idea to me, but at least that's consistent. Let other organizations decide to manage the buoys. While I'd prefer for the government to do it, it could be possible to have other groups fund such things. It would be…

It's also (according to some in Congress) an illegal action as Congress authorized and funded the project: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/lawmakers-fight-to-stop... But that just seems like par for the course for the current administration, whether it's tariffs or ballrooms or ocean sensors - do the illegal thing ASAP, let the courts argue for months or years, and maaaaaybe get a slap on the wrist sometime way…

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Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#194
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

They're ideological goals, not technical ones. If they don't make sense to you it's because you're not viewing it through their ideological lens.

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Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#195
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think climate scientists can enumerate major carbon sources and sinks Science has no idea where 2-3 gigatons of carbon go every year. That's a BIG number. And it is a big deal. And it has been missing for decades now. All the time you were calling someone a science denier, you've been completely unaware that you can't even account for all the major carbon sources/sinks. https://www2.nau.edu/~gaud/bio326/class/ecos…

Science hasn't figured out how the entire planet works yet so we should do less science?

That does seem to be their argument. Lots of trolls in this discussion, we don't need to feed them.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#196
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

If you want to be an authoritarian ruler, truth is the first thing you have to eliminate! If noone knows what is true, a leader can tell you what to believe! Science is our method to determine truth! A führer cannot have that!

It was also the first things Hitler and Mussolini did once they got power.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing they've done is make it possible to cancel any grant at any time if it goes against the politics of the current executive administration. Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing, entire areas of science have flourished that would never have happened otherwise. That's not to say that politics is completely out of science, Cong…

>Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing Please don't take this as a defense of the Trump administration pulling these ocean sensors, but the previous administration also had political demands on grants. One of the better articles about this I've found is "Politicizing science funding undermines public trust in science, academic freedom, and…

This is a good point but its apple vs oranges. This administration is literally politicizing and destroying science funding.

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#198
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary goal of authoritarianism is consolidation of power among a small number of elites. Anything that can reduce that power is an enemy. The essential weakness that the powerful elites have is that they are, by definition, outnumbered. So in order to consolidate and maintain power, they need to disturb any system that the masses can use to coordinate and form collective action. (It's a kid's movie, but Hopper'…

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What supporting evidence would convince you concretely?

Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing they've done is make it possible to cancel any grant at any time if it goes against the politics of the current executive administration. Science has flourished in the US precisely because it could proceed without whimsical political picking and choosing, entire areas of science have flourished that would never have happened otherwise. That's not to say that politics is completely out of science, Cong…

A professor I worked for in college was a big fan of how the US funding was fragmented, with some coming from the NSF, some from NIH, Energy Ag, each branch of the military... if one department had a loon in charge, the others would keep things running smoothly.

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Re: U.S. pulling ocean sensors a 'shock' for Canadian research as El Niño nears

#200
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but I think climate scientists can enumerate major carbon sources and sinks. Unfortunately your comment is so vague that I can't tell if you're referring to a specific thing some person said or if you're just imagining a guy to be mad at.

>I think climate scientists can enumerate major carbon sources and sinks Science has no idea where 2-3 gigatons of carbon go every year. That's a BIG number. And it is a big deal. And it has been missing for decades now. All the time you were calling someone a science denier, you've been completely unaware that you can't even account for all the major carbon sources/sinks. https://www2.nau.edu/~gaud/bio326/class/ecos…

So instead of funding more research into a potentially important unknown, as you say, we should just.. not?
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