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Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

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Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#191

Post by wuliwong »

LUmBULtERA wrote: post #65
yanis_t wrote: post #2

I was wondering how does Anthropic and likes keep competitive when Opus is ($5 / $25) 5x times more expensive compared to Kimi K2.6 ($0.7 / $3.4) or other Chinese models, while being only marginally better. My theory is that US enterprise just can't send data to Chinese and that's understandable, but is that "the moat"?

API token price is one thing, but subscriptions on Claude are a good value. Weirdly everyone says that Claude subscriptions are subsidized because of the API price, even though (1) no one actually knows Claude's cost of inference, and (2) Chinese providers are also able to provide cheap inference, so why do they think Claude can't? I also wonder if Enterprises have deals for other API pricing that is not posted publi…

I only have knowledge of one enterprise deal but there is no discount. Which I found surprising.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#192

Post by antonvs »

kennywinker wrote: post #91
esafak wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "Chinese" is pejorative in this context any more than "American" is. They are one of the two ecosystems. What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today?

> What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today? Only that it’s a fairly meaningless grouping. When japan first entered the car market in north america there might have been some commonality, but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have? They’re not even imported a lot of the time. Given that, it does start to feel tinged with racism if someone insists on grouping things together tha…

> but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have?

Better overall design?

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#193

Post by antonvs »

fuck_google wrote: post #104
dcreater wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly there is a pejorative context. The constant us, the free world vs China, the evil Soviets rhetoric from every major news establishment and executive creates that negative view

On the other hand the Trump administration has successfully managed to make Chinese seem better than American, so there might not be that much of a pejorative context any more..

You're right, but the bias in the US certainly persists. "China = bad" is an assumption that many people still make without any self-reflection about the ways in which the US is now at least as bad.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#194

Post by tomaytotomato »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #136

Has anyone taken these open weight models from China and stripped the CCP out of them? I do not mean that snarkily, I mean review them thoroughly using techniques for weight introspection (concept activations) in response to things that one might expect would trigger deceptive/malicious behavior if the CCP had actually tried to implant context-specific behaviors (e.g. the accusation of generating vulnerable code if b…

Check out TNG on huggingface

They are a consultancy in Germany, but I watched a presentation on them tuning and removing bias from Deepseek models. It was quite interesting.

https://www.tngtech.com/en/about-us/news/release-of-deepseek...

(I upvoted your question as I agree)

Its not just code we need to worry about, its also subliminal messaging and other things.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#195

Post by antonvs »

WarmWash wrote: post #73
dcreater wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope we stop using the term "Chinese models". It has this air of Negative connotation. It's the equivalent of calling cars Japanese, which people used to do but now is almost entirely meaningless. You just call them Toyota, Honda, Lexus etc.

[flagged]

Do you believe there's some meaningful benefit to the American VC funding model in this case? It's not clear to me what you're trying to say or why you think it's an important distinction.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#196

Post by antonvs »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #140
jdw64 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias. And even…

The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users. We live in a time of a great geopolitical rivalry and high tensions with an emergent technology with tons of national security implications. To pretend otherwise is silly, and to fail to ask the question, dangerous.

> The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.

We absolutely know that we can't trust the American model not to do that - it's "by the oligarchs, for the oligarchs" - so it's not clear what the claim really is.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#197

Post by pizlonator »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #190
pizlonator wrote: post #179

I just had Kimi K2.7-code rebase my Fil-C OpenSSL patch from 3.3.1 to 3.5.7 with quite bare bones instructions and it seems to have worked. 177KB patch, so it's not a small change. The patch did not apply cleanly initially; the agent had to do nontrivial work. I just showed it the patch against 3.3.1, what command to use to build, and the path to 3.5.7 along with a link to the documentation of the change ( https://fi…

"T800" Do you have your agent say things like "Hasta la vista baby", or "I'll be back, after I clear my context" ?

Yes

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#198

Post by [deleted] »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #185
WalterGR wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they asked you to 'advertise' them basically. To be clear, the “advertising” clause just requires you to disclose that you use the thing somewhere in the product, such as credits in an “About” section.

I all it advertising clause, because I remember still in the 2000s seeing an Apple ad which at the end of it showed "Unix" or something like that on it, and I remembered that was one of the BSD license requirements, or maybe Apple just did it also just to proudly boast using Unix.

[deleted]

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#199

Post by ffsm8 »

odiroot wrote: post #160
dcreater wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope we stop using the term "Chinese models". It has this air of Negative connotation. It's the equivalent of calling cars Japanese, which people used to do but now is almost entirely meaningless. You just call them Toyota, Honda, Lexus etc.

Japanese cars is actually a positive qualifier. I'd say anything Japanese motor-powered.

Maybe he's just from an alternative universe. Chinese model isn't negative either after all.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#200

Post by WalterGR »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #185
WalterGR wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they asked you to 'advertise' them basically. To be clear, the “advertising” clause just requires you to disclose that you use the thing somewhere in the product, such as credits in an “About” section.

I all it advertising clause, because I remember still in the 2000s seeing an Apple ad which at the end of it showed "Unix" or something like that on it, and I remembered that was one of the BSD license requirements, or maybe Apple just did it also just to proudly boast using Unix.

Hmm… I may be confusing the following clause from the “new” BSD license with the advertising clause from the original BSD license.

> 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

The 2-clause BSD license omits even that.

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