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Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

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Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#191

Post by mrtksn »

surgical_fire wrote: post #185
mrtksn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Americans understand what US used to mean for the rest of the world. America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped from the ills of the old world where you invest or you go to build things, where your past or identity wasn't the primary concern but your dreams your abilities were. It wasn't nationalistic place, it was open to all and pretty much it was the group work of human…

Sometimes I envy the illiterate. At least they cannot read this ridiculous load of propaganda.

Don't go too hard on yourself on this, you are doing just fine.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#192

Post by jschveibinz »

throwwwll wrote: post #147
embedding-shape wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But ultimately the Swiss decides what Switzerland does, and the population deciding they didn't want that, was the deciding factor. Been pressure on Switzerland about that for a long time, from many countries, and in fact still there is, as many still think they're not doing enough. Not everything in the world happens because of the US :)

You are naiive and/or stupid. And/or gaslighting. Most likely the latter since you have to sugarcoat your message with trailing emoji. UBS tried to hold for as long as they could, and the choice the US given them is "pay a fine (accrues daily) or be cut from world financial system run by dollar". UBS ultimately paid a 780 million fine. The rest of Swiss banks followed suit immediately. Many things in the world happen…

Please maintain proper decorum. Ad hominem attacks aren't beneficial to the discussion on HN. Thank you.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#193

Post by deaux »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #156
valzam wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, is that really only due to data center geo? I am always amazed how low latency and high quality Facetime between Europe Australia is. Seems like good engineering can overcome less optimal geographics.

I find that hard to believe. Are you implying that Apple is running their own fiber network providing low-latency connection between Europe and Australia? Or what kind of "good engineering"?

I can vouch for GP's exact experience. Facetime does feel much smoother than other videocalling apps for AusEurope. Of course they don't run their own fiber network. The good engineering is making it feel smooth and good despite that. At its core, nothing about computing is smooth. Everything is based on making it feel that way, using countless techniques.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#194

Post by snowpid »

graemep wrote: post #107
lava_pidgeon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe's biggest problem (I do not mean just the EU, I mean everyone from the UK to Russia) is that it is in denial about its decline, weakness and irrelevance to the rest of the world." I disagree on this broad statement.

Why? I see statements like this as evidence of denial - the same with the downvotes. No real counter argument, no evidence, just - "you are wrong". Europe is relatively a much smaller fraction of the global economy or population than it was a few decades ago. It is militarily less significant. How is that not a decline? Shooting the messenger is just another sign of being in denial.

" Europe is relatively a much smaller fraction of the global economy or population than it was a few decades ago. It is militarily less significant. How is that not a decline? "

Yes and most of my friends are aware. It isnt a big problem because Quality of Life is still very fine. So present your arguments. How are people in denial?

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#195

Post by dmurray »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #172
dmurray wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be strict about who you do business with while still respecting their privacy once they are set up. The respectable, politically popular country setting this up would simply say yes to the International Criminal Court, but no to Putin. This doesn't work well as a blacklist of "everyone's allowed unless they turn out to be sanctioned", because some shell company or reseller could register and actually be a fro…

But now you're proposing something that doesn't solve the problem for the vast majority of people, since nearly everyone is neither the International Criminal Court nor Vladimir Putin.

It might solve it for the majority of people by compute use, though. Charge $100,000 one time auditing fee to get approved for it. For a Fortune 500 company or EU government agency or a big NGO that's nothing.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#196

Post by surgical_fire »

mrtksn wrote: post #191
surgical_fire wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I envy the illiterate. At least they cannot read this ridiculous load of propaganda.

Don't go too hard on yourself on this, you are doing just fine.

Given enough time on HN, we will all get there someday.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#197

Post by adjejmxbdjdn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #179
aembleton wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now which mobile platform are you going to use that doesn't give one of two US companies root on your population's phones? HarmonyOS

Something with ~0% market share outside of China and which trades the US having root for China having root is not a viable alternative. In theory you could have something produced by a country other countries might be willing to trust, but the number of countries that are both trustworthy and large enough to sustain a globally-viable platform is practically the empty set at this point. Which means the thing it calls…

One of the ironies of the TikTok-China discussion was that as an individual in the US, I would much prefer the Chinese govt have access to all my data over the U.S. government, just like I suspect individuals in China would be much better off if the U.S. government had all their data over the Chinese government.

So giving your data to the Chinese government, while not a great solution, may still be preferable over giving it to the U.S. for someone in the EU given the closer relationship between EU governments and the U.S. than EU governments and the Chinese government.

Of course, this may be the opposite of what you want from a national perspective.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#198

Post by Epa095 »

EdiX wrote: post #118
kergonath wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free trade didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine and it didn't convert China into a democracy. We do not need China to be a democracy. That’s a matter for the Chinese people. Imposing a form of government from outside rarely works and is really counter-productive most of the time.

The point of all this free trade ideology is that it would make the whole world into peaceful liberal democracies. If it doesn't do that, why are we doing it? We're just making ourselves dependent on dangerous dicators while simultaneously enriching them.

   The point of all this free trade ideology is that it would make the whole world into peaceful liberal democracies.
No, it's truly not. Yes, for some time it was said (and probably believed) that free trade, capitalism, and democracy were all mutually dependent. But that has turned out to be false.

But the reason for free trade is economy, and that it in theory makes everyone richer (but not necessarily free). In reality things are more complicated, both in term of strategic dependency, and distribution of the increased wealth. But economy is the answer to your question.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#199

Post by tiahura »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #197
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something with ~0% market share outside of China and which trades the US having root for China having root is not a viable alternative. In theory you could have something produced by a country other countries might be willing to trust, but the number of countries that are both trustworthy and large enough to sustain a globally-viable platform is practically the empty set at this point. Which means the thing it calls…

One of the ironies of the TikTok-China discussion was that as an individual in the US, I would much prefer the Chinese govt have access to all my data over the U.S. government, just like I suspect individuals in China would be much better off if the U.S. government had all their data over the Chinese government. So giving your data to the Chinese government, while not a great solution, may still be preferable over gi…

My bank account is much more likely to get wiped by Chinese hackers than the CIA.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#200

Post by Zigurd »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #179
aembleton wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now which mobile platform are you going to use that doesn't give one of two US companies root on your population's phones? HarmonyOS

Something with ~0% market share outside of China and which trades the US having root for China having root is not a viable alternative. In theory you could have something produced by a country other countries might be willing to trust, but the number of countries that are both trustworthy and large enough to sustain a globally-viable platform is practically the empty set at this point. Which means the thing it calls…

Viability is debatable. There are tens of millions of smartphone users in the US who are vastly more exposed to US law-enforcement abuses and intrusiveness than anything China would care to try. Chinese emigres excepted.

In other words China doesn't have to be trustworthy as long as the mountains are high and the emperor is far away.

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