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The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

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Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#191

Post by qarl »

kube-system wrote: post #175
zozbot234 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, fails the compliance checkbox. OK, then the not-so-cheap hyperscalers that these enterprises are already relying on. E.g. AWS Bedrock will run these models. It's silly to insist on all three of your checkboxes being ticked anyway - U.S. proprietary models don't give you that because the frontier ones are super expensive and the mini models have only barely acceptable cost.

What’s considered expensive in the procurement process is not necessarily the TCO, but often just the year one cost. Which is part of the reason why pay as you go SaaS is so successful. Yeah, Bedrock would be the answer to run DeepSeek in the enterprise. But with the options on Bedrock, DeepSeek fighting for a position somewhere in the middle of the cost/quality spectrum. Not to say it doesn’t have a purpose, but it…

Ooooohhh! Yes, now I understand why I was getting those downvotes.

Thank for you explaining what you meant by "you’re conflating nationality with hosting model." It makes so much more sense now. You meant "But with the options on Bedrock, DeepSeek fighting for a position somewhere in the middle of the cost/quality spectrum."

Yes, that is the answer, and you are not full of sh!t.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#192

Post by Der_Einzige »

computerex wrote: post #52
Der_Einzige wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that they're a hell of a lot less cheap on American hardware than on Chinese hardware. At the point you are running Chinese models on US hardware, "Why not nano or haiku" becomes the next relevant question.

Not true. Togetherai, deepinfra, fireworks AI offer a wide range of models like gpt oss that are very capable and far cheaper than the models from big 3.

I'm referring to Chinese open source models hosted on American clouds vs Chinese clouds. You're talking about an old and non-agentic capable American produced model.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#193

Post by mannanj »

sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Is it just me, but the language gap between me and the AI believers is becoming insumountable. I use AI every day. I have a local server not ten feet from me as i type this, but i struggle to comprehend the gibberish that comes from those only slightly deeper in the rabbit hole than myself. Is this what 24/7 AI thinking does to people? >> I am here to light up the dark path you are unknowingly walking, like lamplight…

I actually liked that statement about the sin of idolatry. I resonated and it described something I've been guilty of and learning to break, its embedded deem in the culture. We do idolize and heroize groups and people, think Elon Musk and his cult following in the early days of Tesla.

I think it's great to name that even if it's in this crude, sort of offensive way.

AI thinking has had this weird effect on me though like you say, where I want to write sentences with more commas in them, and like, try to make 3 points and 3 separate commas in a sentence to condense information better.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#194

Post by ma2kx »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #92
zozbot234 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that if used as a coding agent, an AI model affiliated with a country's government might try to make my software susceptible to attacks by that government's intelligence forces. Note that if such a trigger were to exist, the behavior has to be completely reproducible by definition, e.g. when put into the right setting with the right input context, the model starts behaving maliciously with at least some well-define…

Such incidents have been extensively described. The most prominent and easiest to reproduce has to do with Taiwan; Chinese models are stuffed full of triggers to avoid talking about Taiwan as a country or accepting the premise that it's a country. Try asking Deepseek about country code +886!

Sure, but I don't talk with my coding agent about politics. And its something different to avoid a topic and to deceptively implement a backdoor.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#195

Post by trumpdong »

jmyeet wrote: post #65

This is kind of a winding, long-winded way of saying that AI models are going to be commoditized, mostlikely by the Chinese. This has been my position ever since DeepSeek came out. It is a national security interest for China for an American company not to "own" AI. And they will release models to make that not happen. We aren't yet at the point where running local models can compete with DC type infrastructure but i…

That sounds like a big problem for OpenAI investors and not a problem for anyone else. Why should I or you care?

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#196

Post by mannanj »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #75
mannanj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to send my data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in USA either. This to me seems very rational. It's not tribalistic or binary ,choose USA Or Choose China. We can choose neither. Choose neither abuse.

They've been singing the same old song since the Cold War, "either support everything the US does or you're a commie/terrorist." Yawn.

[dead]

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#197

Post by computerex »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #192
computerex wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Togetherai, deepinfra, fireworks AI offer a wide range of models like gpt oss that are very capable and far cheaper than the models from big 3.

I'm referring to Chinese open source models hosted on American clouds vs Chinese clouds. You're talking about an old and non-agentic capable American produced model.

You are actually referring to open weight models, not open source. Gpt-OSS is an example of an open weight model. It’s highly capable in agentic settings, people use it for coding all the time.

My greater point remains. Models like the qwen variants, minimax, k2.5, glm models are available by American providers like AWS at a much cheaper price than api offerings from the big three LLM providers.

Your point about Chinese models being cheap only on Chinese hardware makes absolutely zero sense. You can check out the model catalog like together ai’s qwen 3.5 9b offering. It’s 25 cents for 1M tokens vs the ridiculous $5/1M tokens for haiku.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#198

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ma2kx wrote: post #194
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such incidents have been extensively described. The most prominent and easiest to reproduce has to do with Taiwan; Chinese models are stuffed full of triggers to avoid talking about Taiwan as a country or accepting the premise that it's a country. Try asking Deepseek about country code +886!

Sure, but I don't talk with my coding agent about politics. And its something different to avoid a topic and to deceptively implement a backdoor.

> Sure, but I don't talk with my coding agent about politics.

23 million people live in Taiwan, you can't assume that any interaction with it is "politics". Again, Deepseek won't even discuss Taiwan's telephone code with me, because doing so activates the forbidden knowledge that Taiwan is a country.

> And its something different to avoid a topic and to deceptively implement a backdoor.

Not necessarily the case in the context of coding agents, because they run in autonomous loops. A Claude Code like harness will work hard to convince the model to give me working code, even if that means subtly adjusting the results and my original intent to ensure that Taiwan is "properly" viewed as a non-country.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#200

Post by zozbot234 »

computerex wrote: post #197
Der_Einzige wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to Chinese open source models hosted on American clouds vs Chinese clouds. You're talking about an old and non-agentic capable American produced model.

You are actually referring to open weight models, not open source. Gpt-OSS is an example of an open weight model. It’s highly capable in agentic settings, people use it for coding all the time. My greater point remains. Models like the qwen variants, minimax, k2.5, glm models are available by American providers like AWS at a much cheaper price than api offerings from the big three LLM providers. Your point about Chin…

Not a great example: Qwen 9b is a tiny model that outputs barely coherent text in a casual chat, nowhere near comparable to Haiku. But the broader point stands.
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